By Paul Freeman [2007 Interview]

“Soul and Inspiration” is but one of the many, many timeless hits penned by the husband-and-wife songwriting team of Barry Mann and Cynthia Weil. And they imbued the era of the 60s and beyond with remarkable amounts of both soul and inspiration.

Mann’s magnificent melodies and irrepressible rhythms soar, brimming with honest emotion and a compelling sense of drama. They’re perfectly complemented by Weil’s moving, intelligent, insightful, often thought-provoking lyrics. Their songs grab the listener’s heart and mind, holding on deeply, lingering in the memory.

Mann & Weil’s hit list is nothing short of astonishing. It includes “He’s Sure The Boy I Love” and “Uptown” (The Crystals), “Blame It on the Bossa Nova” (Eydie Gorme), “On Broadway” (The Drifters), “I’m Gonna Be Strong” and “Looking Through The Eyes of Love” (Gene Pitney), “Walking in the Rain” (The Ronettes, Jay & The Americans), “Kicks” and “Hungry” (Paul Revere & The Raiders), “Shades of Gray” (The Monkees), “Magic Town” (The Vogues), “Make Your Own Kind of Music” and “It’s Getting Better” (Mama Cass), “Rock and Roll Lullaby” (B.J. Thomas), “I Just Can’t Help Believing” (B.J. Thomas, Elvis Presley), “Here You Come Again” (Dolly Parton), “Just a Little Lovin’,” (Dusty Springfield) and “Don’t Know Much” (Linda Ronstadt & Aaron Neville). The duo also wrote “Shape of Things to Come,” the electrifying number from the cult film “Wild in the Streets.”

Their song, “You’ve Lost That Lovin’ Feeling,” a masterpiece, produced by Phil Spector and performed by The Righteous Brothers, was the most played song of the 20th century. It was a peak of the Mann & Weil musical power, matched by another Righteous Brothers classic, “(You’re My) Soul and Inspiration.”

As a recording artist, Mann himself had a 1961 hit with the novelty song “Who Put The Bomp,” which cleverly spoofed doo-wop lyrics. He co-wrote that one with Gerry Goffin, who, teamed with then wife Carole King, rivaled Mann & Weil for the title of pop/rock’s greatest songwriting duo.

Mann teamed with Dan Hill to create the huge 1977 hit “Sometimes When we Touch.”

In 1986, “Somewhere Out There,” which the Mann-Weil duo wrote with composer James Horner for the animated film “An American Tail,” earned an Academy Award nomination and won two Grammys — Song of the Year and Best Song Written for a Motion Picture or Television.

Mann released his outstanding “Soul & Inspiration” album in 2000. Featuring his own interpretations of some of his greatest hits, it proves what an authentic, expressive and effective vocalist he can be. Revered by his peers, Mann welcomed such guest artists as Carole King, Richard Marx, Daryl Hall, Peabo Bryson, Bryan Adams, Paul Shaffer and J.D. Souther to the project.

Already inducted into the Songwriters Hall of Fame, Mann and Weil were 2010 recipients of the Ahmet Ertegun Award from the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

Mann has extended his creativity into the world of photography. His large-scale shots are beautiful and evocative, true works of art that suggest many meanings and subtexts. You can view examples here: http://mann-weil.com/barryphoto/main.php

We had the pleasure of talking with Barry Mann, a soulful and inspiring talent, about his visual and aural magic, prior to his 2007 exhibition of photographs in Palo Alto.

POP CULTURE CLASSICS:
Your photographs are incredibly striking. How did you discover this style, this concept? How did it evolve?

BARRY MANN:
It’s so hard to pinpoint. I studied architecture for about a year. And then I quit. I couldn’t see myself as an architect. And I worked my way into the music business. I always had a good visual eye. I wasn’t aware I had a good visual eye. And when I think back, I realize that even in the late 60s, early 70s, I was taking photographs, black-and-white photographs.

I had a Yashica camera. It was my first camera. And I remember, when I was doing the publicity for one of my albums, the photographer came over to photograph us, I showed him my photography. The guy freaked. He really liked it. I was living in New York at the time. Again, it was visuals. There were like three smokestacks across the East River and I shot those. My building was part of three buildings and there was like a courtyard in the middle at the time. And there were all these footprints from the snow. And I remember shooting down there and again, it was kind of graphic, you know what I’m saying? So I didn’t know I was developing any kind of style. I took pictures of people, too. And then I just kind of messed around. I didn’t think much about it. I was just writing songs… and I was being very successful.

And then about 17, 18 years ago, I’m friendly with David Hume Kennerly. You know who he is? He’s a Pulitzer Prize-winning photographer. He was President Ford’s photographer. And he won the Pulitzer Prize for his photos from Vietnam. A great photographer, photojournalist. And I went on a few trips and I had this Nikon. And I would take trip photos. Every now and then, I would try to take a photo that was a little more artistic. And I started to think, “Maybe I should try to get more serious about this.” So I talked to David about it. He said, “Look, let’s go get some good cameras.” So I bought a Nikon F-4 and picked out four different lenses. He says, “Go shoot.”

And I just started to shoot And I had this concept in my mind. For some reason, I wanted to shoot large. I had this concept of getting objects, that you don’t quite know what they are. You get part of that object and you can make an abstract painting out of it.

I happened to be jogging around the Beverly Hills track and there was a very colorful batting backstop. It had marks where the ball had hit. There was this green kind of tarp and the balls were hitting and after years, you’d see these white marks from the baseballs. And the side had really nice colors. And I shot that — it was an early photograph — and I blew it up to about 70 by 56. It looked great. Not even digital. Just regular photography. And I started to do stuff like that. And my eye would see things like that. It’s almost like you go into camera mode. You go into photographer mode. And you start seeing things you wouldn’t normally see. And that’s how I started getting into that.

But after, I went out with David and I photographed stuff, even smaller stuff, too, which is very visual. I showed them to David and he thought the stuff was great. So I thought to myself, “Hey, I must have something! A Pulitzer Prize-winning photographer really likes my work. I’m going to really get into this.” And I started shooting a lot. That’s basically how I kind of slid into it. I’m still writing music, too. But doing this at the same time.

PCC:
And are these passions equal, but different?

MANN:
You know, they’re very similar — and this is going to sound a little hokey — But when I write a song, I would love someone to visualize a photo almost. And when I print a photo, I would almost like someone to kind of hear a song. Similar in that sense. I get the same almost visceral feeling when I’m satisfied with a song. I start layering a melody down over synths and it feels very satisfying, when it’s finished, when I know it’s something that’s good. I get the same feeling from a photograph that just feels right. So they’re similar in that sense. Kind of viscerally, I get a similar reaction.

Sometimes, creating a song, especially now, with all the technology, where you’re layering things, it’s almost like painting a picture, where you do layers. In painting, you start putting different colors in. And music is the same way — you start putting different musical colors into an arrangement of a song.

Or sometimes to be turned on to write a song, I can just sit and listen to sounds. And sometimes that sound — or if you want to call it “that color” — turns me on to write a certain kind of melody. So I think, in that way, visual art is similar to music.

PCC:
What about in terms of the reactions you hope to elicit from whomever is taking in the art? Is it more of an emotional response that you’re looking for in the music? More intellectual in the photography? Or not?

MANN:
Both emotionally. I’d like them to react to the photographs and to the music that way.

PCC:
Do you think it’s that you view the world in a different way — that’s why you have the ability to create these unique images?

MANN:
You know, it’s very interesting, I didn’t know I had this. The guy, my friend, he said I could have been as successful as a photographer as a songwriter, which I really hope to be. He said, “You really take for granted what you do. But you just naturally have a great visual eye — composition and color — it just is there.”

PCC:
What about the songwriting — was that more of an acquired craft? Or did that come naturally, as well?

MANN:
Again, I was born with it. But I really got better [laughs]. The reason I say that, there’s this album, out of Germany, and somehow they got hold of my early demos. I’m talking about the early 60s. And some of the songs, I don’t even remember I wrote. Some I’m singing, I didn’t even write. And it’s like three-CD sets. And those songs are terrible. [Chuckles] I’m embarrassed. I wish I could get the damn things off the market. But you can’t. I’m sure gangsters put them out. You know what I’m saying? And it’s not worth pursuing. It would cost much more to pursue than, I’m sure, they’re making on it.

PCC:
The “Soul & Inspiration” album you recorded several years back has you delivering some fantastic renditions of your classic tunes. You started out as a performer. Did you always have a burning desire to record your own songs? Or were you happy having other people recording them?

MANN:
[Laughs] You know, I’ve been on so many recording labels. I had a hit with “Who Put The Bomp)” [laughs]. And after that, nothing really happened with me as a performer. It’s not the kind of song that really you can create a career with, you know? But I have more of a songwriting temperament, where you’re really alone, creating by yourself. I was very nervous as a performer.

I have friends who are performers, some who just can’t wait to get on the stage. They have no fear. And I’ve always had fear… even though, my wife and I did a show in New York, a few years ago, off Broadway, called “They Wrote That?” And I performed and I felt like I got over a lot of the fear. I would get nervous when I’d get on the stage. And then maybe the first three songs I’d be nervous and then I’d be sailing along. But generally, I think my temperament is not that of a performer.

PCC:
Might you revive that show at any point?

MANN:
You know, it was very difficult. We were doing eight shows a week. We were in New York. It was the coldest winter in 50 years. But kept doing it anyway. We would do it, if we could do it out here in Southern California. It would be easier to do. But we have written an original show, too.

PCC:
Was that many years in the works?

MANN:
Yeah, but now we finally have theatres, three theaters. One in November, one in December and then one in February. And then we’ll see if we go to New York. Wonderful score. ”Mask.” You remember the Cher movie? [Unfortunately, the musical did not make it to Broadway.]

PCC:
Who did the book?

MANN:
Anna Hamilton Phelan, who wrote the movie. And it’s directed by Richard Maltby, Jr. [who previously helmed two Tony-winning revues — “Ain’t Misbehavin’,” “Fosse”]

PCC:
That sort of project requires a lot of blood, sweat and tears. Why were you so passionate about that particular project?

MANN:
I liked the atmosphere. It was bikers… not that I’m a biker. And it was a story between a mother and a child. And in a way, it’s very spiritual to me. It’s this kid who had this disfigured face. He had this mother — to anyone else, she would be the most horrible mother in the world — but to this kid, she was perfect, because she wouldn’t let him get away with feeling sorry for himself.

And it’s a really great story. And he’s almost like a spiritual figure, in that he turns so many people’s lives around. So we found it interesting. And it’s also the kind of story where I could write pop and rock. It calls for that kind of music. You have a Springsteen-ish feel on certain levels, which is great.

PCC:
And thinking back to the song “On Broadway,” was Broadway always a dream of sorts?

MANN:
You know, it was more my wife’s. My wife started out writing for Broadway. She met with Frank Loesser [“Guys and Dolls,” “How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying”]. When she first got in the business, she showed him her lyrics. And he thought they were really good and had her hang around his publishing company. So she was writing with kind of show writers. But then she met me [laughs] and her eyes opened up to a whole other world.

PCC:
And what was the chemistry there, creatively, between you and Cynthia?

MANN:
Yeah, I remember we started going together. And I said, “Let me see your lyrics.” And she showed me her lyrics. And her lyrics — they were gutsy and yet they were very sophisticated. And I thought, “Man, this would really be interesting, to combine in the rock world.” And I told her, “Go listen to The Everly Brothers. Go listen to The Drifters. Go listen to those records.” And so she did.

And she just took to it right away. I mean, my wife is very, very smart. She’s really brilliant. And she’s a brilliant lyricist. In a certain sense, she probably should have never gone into the pop business [laughs]. She would have been Stephen Sondheim. She’s so, so smart. Her lyrics are so smart… and soulful.

PCC:
A lot of times, with songwriting teams, it’s a case of very different personalities, balancing each other out. Is that the situation with you and Cynthia?

MANN:
Yeah. We are totally different. She’s much more of an obsessive-compulsive personality. And I’m much more spacey. [Laughs] But it works.

PCC:
Do you still hear as many great songs coming out today? The 60s were such a golden era.

MANN:
I don’t listen that much. Once in a while I’ll listen. I’m so involved in the theatre at this point. I’m more into listening to theatre, going to shows and seeing what’s going on. I used to have the radio on all the time. And I don’t listen much at all.

PCC:
Back in those days, what was it like, hearing those songs of yours being brought to life by great producers and great artists?

MANN:
It was fabulous. Fabulous. Especially when you had a producer doing something with your song that you never even imagined. Look, we had a lot of stuff cut by Phil Spector. You couldn’t ask for anything better than that. Or Leiber and Stoller, because they cut “On Broadway.” They produced “On Broadway.” Great records. I mean, it just had a piano and voice demo, what we sent to Leiber and Stoller. And same thing with Phil. On “You’ve Lost That Lovin’ Feeling,” it was me singing on the piano. And that was basically it. So that was great.

And we were known, by the way — Aldon Music, you know the scene up there was Carole King and Gerry Goffin, Cynthia and myself, Neil Sedaka, a whole slew of writers — but we were known for our great demos. And yet these records I’m talking about, they weren’t even demos, some of them. They were just me singing at a piano.

PCC:
And Phil Spector, quite a controversial guy. For you, was it difficult working with him?

MANN:
Nah, he was okay. Phil was not as damaged. He was still damaged, but not as damaged as he was as he got older. I mean, Phil, I think he said in one interview, in a newspaper, I think he’s manic-depressive. And I’m sure it got worse as he got older. But he was okay to work with. It was a lot of fun. We had a lot of fun together.

PCC:
“You’ve Lost That Lovin’ Feeling,” when you heard the finished record, did you know instantly it was a smash?

MANN:
I remember Phil saying, “This is going to be a huge record. This is going to be one of the biggest records.” I remember him predicting that. He probably wouldn’t even remember that. And yeah, it was an amazing record.

There’s a funny story that goes along with it, which is true — We weren’t in California. We went back to New York after we wrote it. And he cut it without us even being there. And then he played it for us over the phone. And even though I had heard Bill [Medley] sing, because I had rehearsed it with him, but over the phone when he was like, [doing an excellent impression of Medley’s rich and very, very deep singing voice] “You never close your eyes…,“ I started shouting, “You’ve got it on the wrong speed, Phil!”

And that story is known throughout the music business [laughs]. And I really did say that, because, over the phone, it really sounded like a record being played too slowly. But it was great. Once we really heard the record live, it was fantastic.

PCC:
Another fantastic record was Paul Revere & The Raiders’ “Kicks.” In those days, everybody was trying to be so cool, with the drug references. That song [with its anti-drug message] kind of went against the grain. Did you feel that was a brave song to put out in those days?

MANN:
Yeah, it was like, we had friends who were really freaking out. So we really felt for that song. And that’s why we wrote it. That song had a really good demo. But Terry Melcher cut a good record, but really based on the demo, a very good demo. And he cut “Hungry,” which is the other Paul Revere thing. That one, we cut a demo and they added some stuff of their own, which I liked, which I had never put in. I thought it was great. They made it even better.

PCC:
Amongst the Brill Building writers, was there a lot of competition? Or camaraderie?

MANN:
Yeah, it was both. {Laughs] And a lot of competition. Our big competition, Cynthia and myself, was Carole King and Gerry Goffin. And we were really best friends. So we were always trying to help each other out, but at the same time, beat each other out for the next record. It got very, very competitive. But we really loved them. And to this day, we’re very, very close, especially with Carole. Gerry’s another story. Not that there’s anything wrong with Gerry. Socially, it’s just that we tended to stay friendly with Carole. She’s great, Carole.

PCC:
The process, how much were you writing on demand? Or were you just working on whatever you wanted to work on?

MANN:
We were always writing. I would say 50-50. In the early days, artists would be after you to go and write. It was about 50-50. Sometimes we would write in their offices. But most of the time, I think we wrote at home.

PCC:
Did you get a lot of pleasure writing for other people? Or was it more fun to just be doing your own thing and writing whatever you wanted?

MANN:
It was like a school. You know, we were so busy… There was really more freedom if you were just sitting and writing for yourself. But because we were so involved, in that period, my wife always says this, there are writers that come along and they are so in tune with the times that they create the music for those times. Like Dianne Warren has been that way for the past 15 years or whatever it is. And we were all part of those times. We were creating the music of that time. So if we didn’t write for specific artists, there would be an artist to record that song, because we were writing for those times.

PCC:
And even though you were writing for the time, it’s definitely timeless music.

MANN:
Yeah, an example — “We Gotta Get Outta This Place,” which The Animals recorded. We wrote it for The Righteous Brothers. And the demo, it was a great demo, it sounds like a Righteous Brothers demo.

PCC:
What about all the demos that you do like? Is there a chance that they will be released in some form?

MANN:
It’s very interesting. At one point, I thought of doing that. But I don’t own the demos, you know. It’s almost too much work, especially with other things that are more important at this point.

PCC:
You’ve accomplished so much. Never a temptation to rest on your laurels? The creative fires never wane with you?

MANN:
No, I don’t understand when people rest on their laurels. [Laughs] I mean, you’ve got to keep going. I’m a songwriter. I’m a creator. And I have to be creating something… besides the havoc I’ve created in my life [laughs]. I have to really be creating. And especially my wife, she’s really much more intense about that.

PCC:
Well, thank goodness you are still creating. You already have an amazing body of work. We’ll look forward to lots more great songs… and photographs.

MANN:
Well, thank you.

You can find news about Barry Mann and Cynthia Weil here: www.mann-weil.com