BILLY J. KRAMER: STILL KEEPS US SATISFIED By Paul Freeman [January 2014 Interview] Billy J. Kramer ranks among the most appealing performers of the British Invasion era. A charming presence, he could smoothly handle a variety of rock and pop styles. Kramer could rip it up on “Great Balls of Fire” or melt hearts with “Twelfth of Never.” Managed by Brian Epstein, he made irresistible hits of such Lennon/McCartney tunes as “Bad To Me,” “I’ll Keep You Satisfied,” “I’ll Be On My Way,” “From A Window,” “I Call Your Name” and “Do You Want To Know A Secret.” Even when John and Paul weren’t penning winning songs for him, Kramer could create unforgettable recordings, such as the delightful “Little Children” and a gorgeous rendition of Bacharach/David’s “Trains and Boats and Planes.” Liverpool’s Kramer, teamed with the Manchester band The Dakotas, became a popular figure on such TV shows as “Shindig” and “Hullabaloo.” They were also featured in the all-star, rock ‘n’ roll film extravaganza, “The TAMI Show.” Kramer, who continued to perform after the British Invasion faded, married a New York woman and moved to the States in 1983. He divides his time between Long Island and Santa Fe. In 2013, Kramer released a splendid, stylistically diverse new album, “I Won The Fight,” which included well-crafted songs he had written, such as the autobiographical “To Liverpool With Love,” the lovely “Sunsets of Santa Fe,” and the triumphantly rocking title track. Billy J. Kramer will be among the special guests at this year’s The Fest For Beatles Fans. This huge event will celebrate the 50th anniversary of Fab Four’s U.S. arrival. Scheduled for February 7-9, 2014, at New York City’s Grand Hyatt Hotel, the weekend will also include appearances by Peter Asher, Donovan, Chad & Jeremy, Mark Hudson, The Smithereens, Cousin Brucie and many other Beatle associates and historians. Kramer will be performing his show on Sunday afternoon, as well as signing and talking to audiences all three days. Fans will enjoy live music, discussions, marketplaces, Beatles memorabilia auction, George Harrison guitar exhibit, film screenings, vendors and much more. See www.thefest.com for full details and tickets. Kramer graciously chatted with Pop Culture Classics about The Beatles, Brian Epstein and the rest of the Liverpool scene. POP CULTURE CLASSICS: Great to hear your new album, “I Won The Fight.” What was the significance of choosing that as the title? BILLY J. KRAMER: What can I say? [Laughs] I think to be in rock ‘n’ roll and to be 70 years of age and gotten through everything, I think you’ve won the fight. PCC: What did it feel like getting back into the studio? KRAMER: I’ll tell you the truth, I had an absolute blast. It was great. The whole thing started, I’ll be honest with you, I hadn’t played guitar for many years. And I went out and bought a new one. And the first thing I did was write the song, “Liverpool With Love,” which was really meant for Brian Epstein, a dedication. And then I wrote the song “Sunsets of Santa Fe.” And then, one day, just in one afternoon, I came up with this “I Won The Fight.” I was just recording songs as they came along. PCC: Was it a different process from the early days? KRAMER: Yes, it was a lot more enjoyable [chuckles], because, firstly, back in the 60s, we were all very restricted time-wise. A lot of people aren’t aware, we made those records from hearing the songs played. Like “Bad To Me,” John Lennon just sat at the piano and played me the song and we learned it and recorded it there and then. People ask me, “What were the demos like?” I just say, “I never had any demos.” That’s how it was. So hearing a song for first time and within an hour or two, completing it, it’s not like today, where I had time and I had technology on my side and stuff like that. I had a ball doing it. PCC: Because you had such control, did it almost feel like this was the first true Billy J. Kramer album? KRAMER: Well, yeah, it’s the first one that’s been true to me, because, let’s face it, I didn’t have any say on what went on my last albums. Apart from the hits, most of the songs were songs that I learned in the studio and just recorded, that I never ever did live. PCC: You’ve got the Fest For Beatle Fans coming up. Do you enjoy those sorts of fan gatherings? This must be a special one. KRAMER: Well, you know, it’s unbelievable and I can’t believe that it’s 50 years. I feel very honored to be doing it, to be still doing what I do, at my age. And celebrating such a thing, it makes me feel good. I think it’s going to be fantastic. And I’m going to be doing a show with my band. And I’m going to be doing the old songs and the new songs. The new songs, I’m very pleased that when I’ve done them in front on an audience, they’ve been very well received. It’s great, because, sometimes you don’t know what’s going to happen [laughs]. PCC: Did you already know The Beatles before Brian Epstein became your manager? KRAMER: I did shows with The Beatles before they were ever known, before Brian managed them. I worked with them at different venues around Liverpool. And then Brian took them on. And I came third in a Merseybeat poll. That was the only rock paper there was there. And I was semi-professional. Right out of the blue, I came third. Brian saw me perform, when we had an awards ceremony and shortly afterwards, he approached me about managing me. PCC: Had a career as a singer always been your path? KRAMER: No, no. Originally, I started off as a rhythm guitar player, in a band. I played behind somebody else who left the band. And the guys in the band pushed me to go to the front, which was very difficult. And I had my guitar stolen and I couldn’t afford another. That’s in the song, “I Won The Fight” [laughs]. I forgot about the guitar then and concentrated on singing. And that was it. PCC: Brian seemed like he would be a very supportive type of manager. What was his role in your life at that point? KRAMER: He was great. A lot of people don’t know, but I used to dress very outlandishly. I’d wear gold lamé and pink and black lamé and red suits and all that kind of stuff. The first thing he said was, “We’re going to put away the Christmas tree, Billy.” And he took me to a tailor and ordered some suits. When I did shows, he would come. He would come unannounced. He wouldn’t tell us. And he’d come with a writing pad with all the things he didn’t like and critique it and critique what I had to say, the choice of songs. He was great. PCC: Beyond being your manager, did he become a friend? KRAMER: Brian was like a friend to me. We used to hang out. We would go to clubs together. When he used to gamble, I’d go out with him, tell him what an idiot he was for losing money [laughs]. He was a person who would go and lose hundreds of pounds gambling, but he would come to my apartment and we’d play poker for pennies out of a sweet jar. On my birthdays, he always gave me a gift. When I did the “Palladium,” which really is on a par with “Ed Sullivan,” I was just about to get ready and I’d ordered this suit. And Brian come walkin’ in and he says, “That’s not what you wear at the Palladium. This is what you wear.” And he’d had a suit made. And he was a very thoughtful man. He would send my family Christmas cards. I’ll never forget, when my mother passed, when he was in Liverpool, he would come and take my father to dinner. Let’s put it this way, I miss him dearly and I’m so glad that he’s in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. It’s something that I’d been pushing for, which is in the song “Liverpool With Love.” And I think he deserves to be there. I could go on and on about that. I saw Brian come back with rejection from London, when he was trying to get The Beatles a record deal. And, let’s face it, Brian introduced The Beatles to the world. There’s been nothing on a par with The Beatles since and, in my opinion, there never will be. PCC: Do you recall any bit of advice he gave you that was particularly valuable? KRAMER: What advice he gave me, and when you think about it, this was a very odd thing for him to tell me, one time, I put on so much weight, that it was ridiculous. And the way he compassionately told me and the way he went about helping me to lose it, I will never forget. PCC: He certainly had difficulties in his life. Did you see Brian’s sad side? KRAMER: You know, it’s funny, because, every time I do interviews, they all go, “Did you know he was gay?” And my attitude is, “Yes, I did know he was gay, but he was a human being.” And it must have been horrific in those days. It’s something that never came up in conversations. That was his own personal life, which I didn’t go into. And he didn’t go into my personal life. PCC: From what I’ve read, contrary to common perception, Brian’s tragic end was accidental. Is that what you feel is the truth? KRAMER: Well, my feelings are this, I was in the Shakespeare, which was a converted theatre in Liverpool, a Shakespearean theatre, which my father used to take me to, when I was a kid. And they converted it into a big club. And Brian came to see me there and he said, “It’s obvious you’ve put a lot of work into your show and I want to really get working on a new project. I’m going to America and when I come back, we’ll do it.” He looked healthier than I’d seen him in a long time. And then I got this handwritten letter on the Saturday night saying his father had recently passed and he didn’t like leaving his mother at home alone. And he referred to our conversation and said, “I’ll see you, when I get back from the States.” And then, the next thing, I’m on the road, and I switch on the TV in a hotel to find out that this had happened. I honestly think that he must have been on some sort of medication and maybe he had a drink or two. But I don’t think Brian had any intentions of taking his own life. And I never met anybody after him who did the things he did for me. It was a real blow. And I found, as I continued in show business, at different times I would think, “I wonder how Brian would have handled this situation.” PCC: It must have been a comforting feeling to be in the hands of a manager who was as dedicated as he was. KRAMER: People don’t know, even when I had a couple of hit records and I had some old shows to do, that I was getting like 30 English pounds for, and I could have been getting a lot, he’d say, “No, you have to do it.” And made me honor everything. A very honorable person. PCC: You mentioned you had played on bills with The Beatles prior to their connecting with Brian. Did they just seem like one of the better Liverpool bands? Or did you get a sense that there was a phenomenon about to happen? KRAMER: I’ll be honest with you, I was in Litherland Town Hall and Bob Wooler [Deejay/compère] said, “Next we have a band called The Beatles.” I’d never heard of them. I didn’t know anything about them. There was never anything in the newspapers. But it was a place I used to go with all my friends. We were starting to put a band together. And The Beatles came on and I knew. I thought, “These guys are going to be bigger than Elvis.” I thought they were phenomenal. PCC: Was it the energy or what about them most impressed you? KRAMER: It was the energy. And they just had something. You know people say, “What is a star?” I can’t explain it. It was just magic. And I just feel very honored, to be around them guys like I was. It was such an honor and a privilege. PCC: Once you had an opportunity to spend time with them, what were your impressions of them individually? KRAMER: I just felt that I’d met four people, I’d never met anybody like them before. It was as if God had dropped them out of the sky. PCC: Did each of them have their own charm? KRAMER: Yes. They were all just very different. I can’t explain the feeling I got, when I sat in a room with John Lennon, just the two of us, and he played the song “Bad To Me” to me. It just blew me away. And then he said, “I want to play you a song. I want your honest opinion of it, Billy.” And he played “I Want To Hold Your Hand.” And I said, “Can I have that?” And he says, “No, we’re going to do it ourselves next week.” And I said, “Well, I think it’s a smash.” PCC: And you must have felt the same way about “Bad To Me.” KRAMER: I felt the same about “Bad To Me.” “Do You Want To Know A Secret,” which people don’t know, was a hit for me in England before they released it. And with that one, I’ve got to tell you the truth, I wasn’t sure, because no one had ever done Lennon/McCartney songs. PCC: With all those Lennon/McCartney songs, were you able to sift through them and see which ones you thought suited you? Or was that more of Brian’s decision? KRAMER: Brian gave me a tape of John singing “Do You Want To Know A Secret” on his own. And I learned the song with The Dakotas. And we did it live on stage and then we went into the studio and did it exactly the same way. But there were no arrangements or anything. ”Bad To Me” was just played to me on the piano. “I Call Your Name,” which was a B-side of “Bad To Me,” we learned in the studio, no demo. We made it up as we went along. And that was a year-and-a-half before they did it themselves. PCC: What do you think it was about the atmosphere in Liverpool that created all that amazing music? KRAMER: You know, I can’t tell you. All I know is that I always thought that Liverpool was kind of stuck in the middle of, away from the rest of society somehow, when I was kid growing up. But I always had this feeling that something special would happen one day. And that we were going to show people what we were all about. And The Beatles paved the way for us all. PCC: Did you get to know Pete Best, as well? KRAMER: I did get to know Pete. I still speak to Pete. He’s a very, very nice person. PCC: Yes, a nice person and a capable drummer. Did you get any sense of him not fitting in with the band? KRAMER: All’s I know is, I knew the reactions of girls, when Pete walked on the stage. When Bob Wooler said, “Let’s hear it one more time for John, George, Paul...” And when Pete came out, they all went crazy. And I didn’t know they were unhappy with his drumming. Bottom line is, it was their band [chuckles] and, you know, what can I say? PCC: Growing up in Liverpool, who had been your early musical influences? KRAMER: I loved Little Richard. I loved Chuck Berry. All those sorts of people. Jerry Lee Lewis. Eddie Cochran was a big favorite of mine. And Buddy Holly. All these people. I was writing some notes, as I’ve started doing my autobiography, and I was just thinking of the lineup of people back then, as opposed to the lineup of people now. And no matter what, if you took out all the Beatle songs from the 60s, there were still more unbelievable songs than anything we’ve heard since then. And, to me, that’s a fact. It’s not just idle chatter [chuckles]. PCC: All those artists you mentioned, great rockers, and you can certainly rock, but you were also a very accomplished balladeer. Was that something you enjoyed? Or were you guided in that direction? KRAMER: I was guided in that direction. To tell you the truth, I wanted to do more rock and show people I was capable of doing it, which is something that I have done on my new album. You know, it might seem an insane thing to say, but Paul played me “Yesterday.” And my thing to him was, “You know, Paul, I want a rock ‘n’ roll song.” I’ve tried to rationalize it with myself for many years [laughs], because everybody had a hit with it. Believe it or not, I don’t feel foolish about it. because I’d just had a hit in England with “Trains and Boats and Planes” and I was obviously searching for something more uptempo. It kind of gets on my nerves, when I see, “Billy J. Kramer, crooner.” I’m not a crooner [laughs]. PCC: But “Trains and Boats and Planes” is a beautiful track, great version of that song. How did that one come to you? KRAMER: My guitar player at the time was one of the greatest guitar players, who never got the recognition, a guy called Mick Green, who played with Johnny Kidd & The Pirates. And there was a Burt Bacharach special on TV that we recorded and, on the special, he did “Trains and Boats and Planes,” but it was a choral version. And me and Mick sat up very late and worked out how we could do it. And the next day, we called up George Martin and went to see him. And he said, “How do you propose to do it?” And we said, “This is how.” And George booked the studio and afterwards we went in and recorded the song. PCC: What was it like working with George Martin? Was he open-minded in the studio? KRAMER: George always let me get on with what I wanted to do. He never really pushed me. I’ve been pushed by a lot of other people a lot more. George is a gentleman. I wish he’d have been a bit harder on me at times [laughs]. But let’s face it, the records, no matter what, were hits. But, it’s funny, because I can sit and tell you every flaw that’s in them. That’s why I don’t like listening to them [laughs]. But they were hit records. PCC: Well, from the outside, they certainly sound great. KRAMER: Well, people tell me that they’re great and that’s all that matters. I’m just glad that they were successful and they got me recognition and gave me a life I would never have had. Due to that, I’ve never had a real job, since I started. It’s a hard business. There have been times that have been great and times that haven’t been great. But you go with the flow. And I’ve had a wonderful career and a wonderful life. PCC: Back to your rock roots, you actually played the Star Club, too, in Hamburg? KRAMER: Yes, I was at the Star Club. Brian sent us. I’d just joined The Dakotas, actually. And they were from Manchester. And he sent us to Hamburg. To me, Hamburg was like a training ground. And I always noticed that the bands that went there, they came back and were better... or they quit. The long hours and the whole thing, it was hard. But it was good. PCC: And was it as crazy as we’ve read? KRAMER: I’ll be honest with you. I was just scared. It was like a den of inequity. Luckily, I was only a kid and Gene Vincent, funnily enough, became a great friend of mine. We hung out a lot and he showed me around. PCC: And kept you safe. KRAMER: And kept me safe, yes. PCC: Did you notice a big difference in The Beatles, from before their days in Germany to after? KRAMER: Absolutely. When they came back from Hamburg and I heard the rumour that Stuart Sutcliffe had left, I wondered, what would they be like? And I went to the Cavern and was blown away. I thought, “I don’t believe this.” Here’s Paul McCartney playing bass. When I’d seen him before, he was playing this Rosetti guitar, with just a few strings on it. And there he was at the Cavern, playing as if he’d been doing it all his life. And I thought they were better than ever. PCC: Stuart did seem to have an impact in his own way. What were your impressions of him? KRAMER: He had this Jimmy Dean sort of look and attitude, which I think kids sort of went for. PCC: With all of the bands happening in Liverpool, was there more of a camaraderie amongst you? Or competition? KRAMER: I think there was camaraderie. I think there was also competition, let’s face it. And there were a lot of bands, in my opinion, that could have made it. But I was very lucky. Firstly, I did have one thought in my mind the whole time, that the only person I would turn professional for, would be Brian Epstein, because, I had seen, even in the early stages, what he was doing for The Beatles. And I was lucky I went with Brian. John and Paul gave me some great songs. John thought up the name of Billy J. Kramer. What more could I ask for, as far as a great kickoff to a career? PCC: Why was there a name change to begin with? KRAMER: Firstly, I was just plain Billy Kramer. And then Brian called me one day and said, “Can you come into the office?” And so I went into the office and John was sitting there. And Brian said, “John has a suggestion that he’d like to put to you.” And I said, “Well, what is it? Let’s hear it?” John said, “Why don’t you call yourself Billy J. Kramer? You’ve got a record coming out and you need something that’s going to catch the public, something that’s going to roll off the tongue. That’s what I think.” PCC: And did he tell you what the “J” was supposed to stand for? KRAMER: I asked and it was “Julian.” I didn’t know at the time, he had a son Julian. And I’ve got to be honest with you, I said to him, “I’ll take the ‘J,’ but I don’t like ‘Julian.’” I was very honest about it. But that was his idea. PCC: And had someone suggested that you change your name to Kramer earlier? KRAMER: The guys in my band, early on, said, “You’ve got to have a stage name,” because everybody did, funnily enough, apart from The Beatles, but that was the thing that everybody was doing in pop music. And I said, “As long as it’s Billy something, I don’t care what it is.” And they made a list of names and they phoned up a telephone operator and said, “Which one do you like the best?” And she picked Billy Kramer. So that was it. PCC: Playing places like the Cavern Club, did they seem magical at the time? KRAMER: The Cavern seemed like magic to me. But even seeing The Beatles at Aintree Institute and Litherland Town Hall and I used to do a gig across the water at a place called the Majestic Ballroom with them. It was all magic. That’s all can say about the whole period. It was like being on drugs, without taking them. PCC: How did you avoid all the pitfalls and excesses of the era? KRAMER: I’ll be honest with you, I was a very shy, unassuming kid. I was overweight, very self-conscious. And at first it was a bit overwhelming. I got into drinking. I became a very heavy drinker. But I quit that 30 years ago. I’ve been sober for 30 years. I did a lot of other things, but, as far as I’m concerned, [chuckles] that’s my business. PCC: Once you started recording all those Lennon/McCartney songs, was there any sense of being intimidated, knowing how the band was becoming such a huge phenomenon? KRAMER: No. Do you know, believe it or not, I never felt intimidated. The guys, to me, were just people I knew. I only found out recently that, apart from all the things in Liverpool, before they were known, I did over 100 shows at Finsbury Park Astoria with The Beatles. I did weeks in every town in England. And, do you know something? I never asked for an autograph. I was always thought that would be a dumb thing to do. To me, they were guys I worked with. I enjoyed working with him. I loved them. I never envied him. I was getting on with my life also. PCC: Did they drop by the studio when you were recording the songs they had written for you? KRAMER: Oh, yes, of course. They came to the studio with every song I did. There’s that song that’s on the EMI box set, one time I was doing a session and John and Paul came in and said, “We’ve got this great song.” And I said, “Well, we’ve got 20 minutes.” And I just couldn’t get it. John was bantering with me and we managed to get two tracks down. Funnily enough, we shelved it and I never went back to it. Eventually The Fourmost, another English band, recorded it. I’d forgotten all about it, until I heard it being played 40 years later. EMI had put it on the box set [the song is “I’m In Love” and John’s banter can be heard in the background]. And I re-recorded it especially for this new CD of mine, as a tribute to John. PCC: “Little Children,” was that validating for you, in that it was a non-Lennon/McCartney tune that became an enormous smash for you? KRAMER: It was a bit of me thinking, I’d had a record that hadn’t done so well. It only went to number three [laughs]. And I just thought, “I’ve got to come up with something special.” And I went through thousands of songs. And quite frankly, John and Paul came up with three or four songs and I didn’t really like them. And John later said, “Kramer was right, because, if he’d done them, it would have destroyed him.” [Laughs] And nobody had hits with them. I can’t remember them. The only one I remember is a thing that went [sings] “One and one is two, what am I to do, now that I’m in love with you.” That’s the only one I can remember. And they weren’t hits for anybody. And, “LIttle Children,” Brian was a little cautious, because of the content of the song. So was George Martin. But I said, “I think you’re being a bit paranoiac about it. It’s just a good song.” PCC: What was it they objected to? KRAMER: Lyrically, about getting rid of the kids and I’ll make out with the daughter. I don’t know whether you’d get away with that today. PCC: Did it come through the transom or how did you find that song? KRAMER: I’ll tell you the truth, I was in a place called Rye, in Sussex, and I went there with, I think about 600 acetates. And I was drinking a lot. And I woke up one morning with a hangover and I was going through these songs and “Little Children” came on and it was just the writer, who sang very badly, played the piano very badly, but I just had the feeling that this was the one to go with. The only thing was, believe it or not, at the time, I just didn’t know how to approach Brian about it. It was a bit of an ordeal for me, telling him. PCC: But eventually he trusted your intuition about the song. KRAMER: Absolutely. Brian was like that. I would go into his office and he’d sit me down and he’d say, “What do you think the charts will be like this week?” And sometimes he’d get annoyed with me, because he’d say like, “Where do you think Gerry’s going to be?” And I’d say, “Well, I don’t think he’s going to be number one, Brian. I think The Searchers are with ‘Needles and Pins.’” [Laughs] We’d have a laugh about it. But he’d always ask me what I thought the number one would be. And he wouldn’t be too happy, when I told him it wasn’t one of his acts [laughs again]. PCC: Doing appearances on shows like “Top of the Pops,” “Shindig” and “Hullabaloo,” what were those experiences like for you? KRAMER: It was a lot of fun. I mean, it was all fun. How many kids, at 19, get the chance to do all the things I had the opportunity to do? You’re a blue collar kid in Liverpool and within a couple of years, you’re flying across to America. And you’re flying here, there and everywhere. It was an unbelievable experience. I remember the first time I came to New York and Brian said, “What do you think of it?” And I said, “I’m so overwhelmed, I think we should get the next plane back.” PCC: And, ironically, you ended up there. KRAMER: I ended up here, yes. PCC: At the height of all the British Invasion madness, were you able to deal with all the screaming and mobbing by the fans? Or was that overwhelming? KRAMER: It was overwhelming. It’s amazing how your life can change. My name was William Ashton. That’s my real name. PCC: Good name. KRAMER: It was William Howard Ashton. Maybe I should have stuck with it [laughs]. I got on the train to Manchester. And at the time, there was a political scandal going on, the Profumo trials. And Johnnie Hamp was the first man to put The Beatles on TV, on a show called “The Scene at 6:30.” He put me on a show and they had me just pushing over these filing cabinets and throwing these so-called secret files around the studio. And I thought it was fun. I take the train back to Liverpool and get off the bus at the end of the street and there’s a mob of girls outside the house. I didn’t realize till I walked up from the bottom of the street. I thought maybe there’d been an accident or something. I didn’t know they were going to be there after me. It was all police getting you into the house and getting you out. And I went through this period, quiet honestly, where I would stay in bed all day and I would go out at like about one o’clock in the morning. And I would come home, full up with booze, and sleep all day. It’s amazing. I remember Brian calling me, I was on a tour in Oxford, and he said, “You’re going to be number one on the charts tomorrow.” And, instead of feeling elated, I lay on the bed in a fog. “God, where do I go from here?” There are no schools for this kind of thing. It’s something that you have to go by the seat of your pants all the time. PCC: Do you remember much about the “TAMI Show” experience? KRAMER: “The TAMI Show” was phenomenal, to be on that show with so many great people. The thing that sticks out in my mind more than anything was, I felt so sorry for The Rolling Stones, having to follow James Brown. Obviously, people don’t see it in the movie, but he was at the top of his game, blew the roof off and it took the police and the security about an hour-and-a-half or so to quiet the crowd. As far as I’m concerned, a show reaches a climax. And it was such an anti-climax, after James Brown, watching The Stones go on. And I felt really bad for them. PCC: Did you do those Caravan of Stars sort of bus tours in America? KRAMER: No, not really. I did tours with people like Gerry & The Pacemakers and Sonny & Cher, but we flew everywhere. And, at the time, I never thought of America as being what it was. To me, I just did a tour and went back to England to all my friends. That was it. I never considered it. PCC: You mentioned that there’s no school to teach you how to handle the huge early success. What about the other end of that? Once the British Invasion dies down, was that a difficult transition, wondering, “Where am I going to go now?” KRAMER: Absolutely, it was. It was hard to be a 60s artist. It was hard, if you brought new records out, which I continued to do over the years. But it’s very hard work trying to get them played. But my attitude was, right from the beginning, when Brian first took me on, he says, “What do you want to do?” I said, “You know, Brian, I want to become a good artist who can survive and play without having hit records.” That’s how I wanted to be, because I’d seen other people going through that process. Over the years, I worked with a lot of different people, I did a lot of different types of shows, which I’m going to talk about in my book. And I came to the conclusion that I’d always been looking for that other special song. And I got to the point where I stopped doing that and just doing what I thought was good. And as long as I did it well, that’s all that mattered. PCC: But having had the hits, the success, are there still goals you’re hoping to attain? KRAMER: Firstly, I think this is the best album I’ve ever made. I never thought I’d feel like this. I don’t like to blow my own horn. I’m not that kind of guy. But it’s the first time I’ve gone through the whole process of developing the songs. Some I wrote. Some were things I’d wanted to do for many years. And I put what I thought was a great album together. Whether it’s successful or not, I don’t know. That’s in the hands of the beholder. All I know is that it’s a very good piece of my legacy. And I hope the song “Liverpool With Love” did help, a little, get Brian in there, in the Hall of Fame. And I’ve got the bug now. I’ve already started doing my next project. I’ll be honest with you, it seems strange, but I want to make up for a lot of time when I was, as I call it, treading water. Now I want to do a lot of things. I want to do original material. And, I know a lot of other people have done it, but I want to do an album of standards. PCC: Your voice would be ideal for that sort of material, as well. You do still perform your classics. Why do you think the music of the 60s has such lasting appeal? KRAMER: Because it’s the best. I would take my hat off to anybody that could do better. I’m not going to mention any names in particular, but I will say this, I do see people today who wouldn’t have gotten inside the doors of some of the record studios then. To me, The Beatles and the 60s raised the bar so high, I think these guys today have got a hard job doing anything near it. PCC: Going out and performing these days, are the satisfactions different? Is it in some ways more gratifying, more fun for you? KRAMER: It’s more fun. I love to do it. I’m not the shy little kid I used to be. And I’m very much myself. It’s what you see is what you get. It gives me the opportunity to show a lot of different sides of me. I do the old hits, because, for me, every artist should. It’s part of what made you. I have no hang-up about that. And I’m not going to do something that’s outrageous and off-the-wall. I’m just doing to do what I think is good. And hopefully people will enjoy it. I’ve got a great band and we all have a lot of fun. We’re not like a lot of other people. This is a family. You understand what I mean? Me and four guys going out to have a good time. We have a ball. PCC: Well, I’m sure people are going to have a ball seeing you at The Fest For Beatle Fans. Have you done these before? KRAMER: I did the Fest in Chicago. And I did the one in New Jersey. And they’re great. I showcased my new material and the crowd loved it. The response, I couldn’t have asked for more. They’re going to make this one spectacular. Mark Lapidos [Fest founder] works really hard. Ken Dashow works very hard [longtime Fest co-emcee]. Martin [Martin Lewis, Beatle author and another emcee] works very hard. Mark Hudson [of The Hudson Brothers and former Ringo Starr record producer] and I have a great chemistry on stage and we sing together. We have a lot of fun with it. I really enjoy, at one point, we all get up there on stage, with acoustic guitars and we go from the skiffle era and how we developed and it’s very interesting. PCC: I’m looking forward to reading the autobiography as soon as it’s published. KRAMER: Over the last few years, I’ve done a lot of notes. And I’ve sat down with a writer. His name is Alyn Shipton, who just did the Harry Nilsson book. PCC: Oh, yes, incredibly well researched and detailed, really delves into all of the music. KRAMER: I was supposed to record for Brian. He was forming his own label before he died. And the first song I recorded was “1941” [classic Nilsson composition]. And a lot of people don’t know that, because of what happened with Brian and the whole scene at the time, it just got completely overlooked. I thought, at the time, it was the best record I’d made. But it didn’t get the exposure. Funnily enough, I had gone to a music publishing friend of mine, looking for material. He said, “I don’t have any, but I’ve just had this great package from America.” And it was all these Harry Nilsson songs. I said, “Can I take it home?” And he says, “No.” And I said, “You’ve got to, or I’ll knock you out and take it.” [Laughs] I said, “I promise I’ll bring it back on Monday morning at nine o’clock.” And I went home and listened and every song was brilliant. But I decided that “1941” had similarities to “Little Children,” in the construction of the song. I got together with a musical arranger called Johnny Arthey and we did a whole thing on it. And I was very pleased with it. [You can find the song on YouTube.] PCC: You and Alyn must have a million terrific tales to tell. KRAMER: We’ve had several meetings and we’re working on it. It’s not a sex and drugs and rock ‘n’ roll book. But hopefully people will enjoy all the stories about how it really was back then on the music scene. I just think, I couldn’t have been born at a better time. For more on this great artist, visit billyjkramer.com.