BOB GAUDIO: JERSEY BOY WITH A GIFT FOR SONGWRITING
Oh, yeah. I mean, it was like watching your life pass by you in two-and-a-half hours with a 20-minute intermission... which was much appreciated [laughs]. Let’s take a breather! Yes, it was quite surreal, as you can imagine, watching that happen and how it happened. I quite frankly got totally engrossed in the craftsmanship, in Des McAnuff’s genius [the musical’s director] and Marshall and Rick, with their obvious credentials, did a magnificent job. And the staging and the lighting - it was overwhelming. And I, at times, watching the show, felt like I was separating myself from it being about me and just watching what I thought was just a great Broadway show. So that part of it was very enjoyable. There are very heavy moments, especially the Frankie moments with his daughter, so sitting next to him and being concerned about how he would respond to that was a little unnerving. But overall, the whole production was just overwhelmingly phenomenal. So we were elated. PCC: After all the time and effort that had gone into building that production, it must have been so gratifying to see it become not just a success, but truly a phenomenon. GAUDIO: Yes, very much so. And people ask if I had any idea. To be quite frank, I have some very close friends who are Wall Street people investors. And Joe Grano, who’s the former president of UBS and Paine Webber and CEO and so on and so forth, was there. And he was interested in investing. And I remember he said, “My God! This is beyond!” I said, “Well, just remember something - you might get yourself in trouble for having insider information here” [Laughs]. Because the response from the audience was just electrifying. It was beyond anything I’d ever experienced in a theater. Maybe it’s because we were there. I don’t know. But we weren’t there every night. And we haven’t been there every night. And it seems like the same response has happened, wherever it plays. So it’s hard to understand how that happens, except, apart from the music and the history, it’s just so well crafted. It’s just a really great Broadway show, if I take myself from the outside looking in. I would have loved this show, if it wasn’t about us.” PCC: And “Audio With a G” - such an amazing array of songs with such great artists represented. Is that a huge source of pride to see that all assembled? GAUDIO: Yeah, Charles Alexander [who conceived the project] did a wonderful job. He’s been involved with us for many, many years. He did an original article in Time magazine, when he was the editor, about the business aspects of our partnership, which was an interesting thing to do. And he put this all together. And he did a magnificent job. Yeah, this is a little bit of “Jersey Boys.” It’s reflecting on stuff that I did. And quite frankly, there’s stuff in there I forgot I did - Who wrote this? - which was actually the case with “Cry For Me,” in the show. I remember Rick Elice telling me, “Boy, we got a showstopper and I hope you know the song.” He told me the title and I said, “No. I don’t. Are you sure? Is my name on it with the copyright office?” He said, “Oh, yeah. Three times.” I said, “Well, okay. I guess. If you say so.” I felt a little bit like that about “Audio With A G.” That whole concept Charles put together and the only thing I added was the title and the signature [the flowing autograph gracing the album cover]. And the title is just something I used, to identify how to pronounce my name. I used to tell people, when they messed it up - “It’s audio with a G.” So that ended up being the title of the album. Yeah, it’s fun. It’s really interesting to listen to a couple of versions of the same song and such broad coverage with artists. PCC: That coincidence - your name being “Audio with a G,” it must have been destiny that you became a musician. GAUDIO: [Chuckles] The music business or the sound business. Yeah, I don’t know. I didn’t think of that until, gosh, I must have been in my 30s, when that struck me. It had never occurred to me. But I just got tired of correcting people. [Laughs] Before you start - this is it. So, yeah, I don’t know. It’s an odd thing. And I’m sure there’s a few things that are even odder than that. But that’s certainly on somebody’s list. PCC: As a kid what had sparked your interest in music? Was your family musical? Did you study piano? GAUDIO: My family - no, not to my knowledge. Although I’ve just started checking on that. And I’m finding out that, on my grandmother’s side of the family, her brother was a Julliard graduate. And these were things I never knew. So I suppose so, but I’m still trying to track it down, because now I’m finding it interesting. [Laughs] I have more time to look at this and check out the genealogy and see what was up. PCC: At what point did music become not just an interest, but a fixation? GAUDIO: Boy, I don’t remember it ever not being a fixation. I don’t know what else I might have done, if not this. It happened early for me. At 15, I had my first success with “Who Wears Short Shorts.” So once you get into it and it’s in your blood, it’s hard to leave it. I tried a few times, because things weren’t going so well. But that didn’t go so well either [laughs]. PCC: Who were some of your early musical influences?
Boy, this is kind of indirect, but the principal of my high school, Paul Hoffmeister, probably got me started indirectly, by convincing my parents that I should go on tour - I had an opportunity and it was okay to leave high school and I could always come back. And that was a big deal back then, especially for my father, who was intent on me getting through high school. So he was a big influence, not on a musical level, but, as I say, indirectly. My piano instructor, Sal Mosca, who was a wonderful, wonderful jazz pianist. He chose to do more teaching than playing. But he played out with some greats at Birdland and so on and so forth. So he was a huge inspiration. It was sort of like musical boot camp. He taught me discipline. He taught me focus. And that was a big deal for me. It’s probably a big deal for any creative person, because it’s easy to kind of bounce around. But focusing was very important to me. And I learned it very early from him. So he was a huge influence. Meeting Louis Armstrong, when I was 16, was one hell of a big deal. PCC: How did that come about? GAUDIO: Well, we did a television show somewhere, in Baltimore, I believe. And he was on there with one of his records. And it was one of those shows where they have five or six acts on in a day. A little bit of a Dick Clark type situation. I just introduced myself and shook his hand and thought, “Oh, my gosh, this is somebody who I’ve been learning from through lessons - scatting and learning to sing with his solos” and so on and so forth. So this was a really big deal. And he made a big impression. He was a big guy, too. His hand looked like baseball mitt. And my songwriting idol is - “I’ve Got You Under My Skin” and some insane variety of music - Cole Porter. So that might be part of why, if you listen to, say, “Audio With a G,” there is a pretty huge difference between “Short Shorts” and some of the other stuff I’ve written [Laughs]. That was one of the things I loved about Cole Porter. So that was an inspiration. He was so diversified. Nothing sounded like five in a row. He just jumped around, from “I’ve Got You Under My Skin” to “Don’t Fence Me In.” Like, what?! [Laughs]. So that was inspiring to me. PCC: Having that hit with the Royal Teens, did that, in some way, prepare you for being part of the business, for the bigger success that was to come? GAUDIO: That was a huge, huge deal for me, because I remember one moment, where we found out that the song, “Short Shorts,” was copyrighted under two different people - our managers at a time. Our names weren’t on it. And it was stunning, at 15, to realize that. And we had a very sharp attorney who took over and got everything straightened out. But that was a big lesson - “This is not such a nice world [laughs]. I’m going to have to be careful.” PCC: Did you listen to a lot of R&B and doo-wop vocal groups, Dion and the Belmonts, artists like that? GAUDIO: Yeah, well, Dion is a good friend. I actually went to high school with him, although he doesn’t even remember it. He was in Bergenfield High School, which was where I was going to high school, for maybe six months. And he also came from the Bronx. So I remember him from when he was with Dion and the Timberlanes, before he had Dion and the Belmonts. And yeah, sure, all the harmony stuff was a big deal for me. And so was some of the instrumental stuff during that time, like Bill Doggett’s “Honky Tonk,” “Green Onions.” So I jumped around a bunch. But I was always into harmony. And I learned a lot about that from my teacher. So it was really great, when you find somebody who sings like Frankie, to be able to write for someone like that, which we didn’t have in the Royal Teens. And we were not really a vocal group. PCC: What was your visceral reaction the first time you heard Frankie sing? GAUDIO: Oh, well, it was astonishing for me. It was someone who I perceived as being able to do anything I wanted to write [laughs]. And that’s an inspiration, because there’s no limitations. And that probably had to do with my writing going from “Sherry” to “Can’t Take My Eyes Off You,” because I could. I had the background to do that. And I had the singer to do it with. PCC: The story of the bowling alley, auditioning for the cocktail lounge, not getting the gig, then taking the name of the venue for the group’s name, and officially forming the partnership with Frankie - how did that unfold?
We might have been a little upset [laughs]. We saw the name. We thought, later on, “Let’s use it!” And I don’t know why we didn’t get the gig. I can’t remember. Maybe we wanted too much money or we thought were too this or too that. We did cover records. That’ s pretty much what we were up to. PCC: And creating the equal partnership between the two of you, at that point, what was the impetus there? GAUDIO: It was a play-it-safe move, I think. I think we both thought the same thing - the idea of covering our bits. Coming from the worlds we came from, playing it safe wasn’t such a bad idea. I think we figured, “Well, you could make, I could make it... “ It turned out that we both made it, so it worked even better. But I would say that was the deal. We were musically on the same page. We had a camaraderie on that level. So it seemed like the right thing to do. PCC: When the group started out doing session work, did you have faith that someday the breakthrough was going to come? GAUDIO: You know, I tell you, if I were someone dealing with me, when I was at that age, I probably would have slapped me [chuckles]. I was pretty cocky, I have to say, and it was always that little attitude of “I can do it better than that. We can make a better record than this.” I do remember having those feelings. So, in the back of your mind, you’re just itching for a chance to get into a controlled situation, where you can write, you can record, you can do the whole nine yards. So it was a good lesson. I learned a lot. I learned a lot from Bob Crewe during that time, and the groups we worked with. So it was great. It was all part of the training, as far as I was concerned, but I did get antsy after a while. And we actually pushed the button, sooner than maybe the plan was. But we got it done. And along came “Sherry.” PCC: Developing that unique sound, the harmonies, the instrumentation, did that come quickly? GAUDIO: Well, Nicky had a lot to do with the sound [band member Nick Massi, bass guitar, bass vocals]. He was a kind of guy that could pull vocal parts out of the air. Even when we were doing club work, we would take our 20-minute break and go out in the corner and sing some stuff. Not just doo-wop. For the most part, we did Hi-Lo’s or The Four Freshmen. So we were always into harmony. And did that. And when I wrote “Sherry,” I was thinking about harmony. I was thinking about a big sound, something that would immediately sound big on the radio and to the listener. Because I knew what we did and what we could do. So writing “Sherry” always had the intention of it being a big vocal sound and having Frankie on top. I mean, wow, that was the signature. PCC: And “Sherry” went through name changes as the song took shape? GAUDIO: [Laughs] Yeah, you know, it’s a cloudy question for me. But I do remember - and if you talk to Bob Crewe or Frankie they probably have another version - but I remember Bob Crewe, at the time, was in the need of some bucks to make records. And he knew the song, in his opinion, was a killer. I think that was the impetus to get in sooner, than later. And it was a matter of raising some money to do it. Somebody at the time, I don’t remember who, was interested in starting a label. But he would only start the label and put that single out as the first single, if we changed the name of the song to “Perri,” which I believe was his daughter’s name. So I didn’t want to do that. And we didn’t go there, thank God. We went to Vee Jay Records, which was a bona fide label, an R&B label at the time. And it worked out great, because they heard it as being an R&B record. And essentially it was number one R&B, before it ever got on pop radio. No one knew who were were. They didn’t know if we were black or white... or four chicks [chuckles]. They had no clue. And it was okay. It worked great. PCC: Is is it true or urban myth that “Rag Doll” came from your encounter with a street urchin in Hell’s Kitchen? GAUDIO: Yeah, that’s very true. And it was 10th and 11th Avenue, the world’s longest light. It may still be. It’s like three minutes long or something. So people would come up to the car and try to make a couple of pennies or a quarter or a half a dollar, when the light changed, cleaning the windows. This arm came up and smeared my window. And I thought, “What is this about?” I looked out the window and saw this little face. And it was exactly that - rag doll, tattered clothes and her face was dirty. I didn’t have any change. The smallest thing I had was a $10 bill. I thought, “I can’t not give her something.” So I gave her the $10 bill. When the light did finally change, I pulled away and I looked in the rearview window. She was standing in the middle of the street, with this $10 bill, just looking at it, stunned. And horns were beeping. And that just stayed with me. So when I got into the city, I told Bob and we started working on some lyrics and off we went. PCC: And “Big Girls Don’t Cry,” that was sparked by watching a John Payne movie? GAUDIO: [Laughs] Yeah. That’s another cloudy one. I’m not sure if it was John Payne, might have been, but there was a line having to do with “big girls don’t cry,” delivered with a slap. I think it was John Payne. But yeah, that’s another of those moments. [Laughs]. PCC: What was the relationship like in the studio, working on the songs with Bob Crewe? GAUDIO: Great. We had a good rapport, obviously. We wrote many of them together after “Sherry.” And we just hit it off. It was one of those good situations. And Frankie fit in perfectly. Everything went smoothly. Bob and I were constantly writing, as much as we could. The more we started traveling, it got a little more difficult. But it was a good relationship. He was a great guy and we did some good things. PCC: That knack for strong hooks and the instinct for coming up with what would click with the group’s sound, were those things inherent in you? GAUDIO: I’d like to think that. I’m not going to sit here and say that I didn’t think about what’s going to work on radio. Or is this going to be different than the record before or the record after? Of course, I thought that way. I’m not the kind of creative person who just locks himself in the closet and hopes somebody knocks on the door. So I was inspired by what I heard on the radio. I was a kid, so I listened to the radio like everybody else at that time. So things inspired me. Things got me out of the car or out to the piano, because I heard something that got me jazzed and “Gee, I’ve got to do better than that” So that was a situation that always went on. Inherent? Yes, in sense that I never put anything down or recorded anything that I didn’t get excited about. If it didn’t raise the hair on my arms, for some reason or other, then I just didn’t consider it worthy. Was I right all the time? I don’t know. But I think you only have to be right 51 percent. PCC: “Can’t Take My Eyes Off You,” such a classic. How did the writing of that one come together?
That’s kind of three tunes, three different tunes, in my eyes, because the beginning was something that happened when Bob threw the title at me. The middle part, which turned out to be the horn lick, was a jingle I was working on for a children’s show, a music box thing. And the chorus was something that was inspired by Stan Kenton and the horns and stuff like that. But I had the chorus and I had the little jingle thing. And then the verse came when Bob came up with the title. But I couldn’t figure out how to get from the verse to the chorus. So, at some point, I figured out, “Well, maybe this little children’s thing can be a bridge, from verse to chorus.” And when the horns became the piano part, bingo, it made a good thing. PCC: You mentioned Cole Porter earlier. Were you conscious of expanding your musical palette? Or was that just the result of natural growth and evolution as an artist? GAUDIO: I think it was a natural evolution. But what astounded me with Cole Porter was, he just didn’t seem like he had any fences. The song “Don’t Fence Me In” - maybe that was his motto. I loved the concept of not having any place I had to stop. So, in that respect, Cole Porter sort of personified that for me. I’m not going to say everything sounded different, but not too far from that. And that was something I wanted to be or do. And I had the background to be able to do that. I had enough training. I could pretty much do what I wanted to do. If I had to get a little on the classical side or the jazz side, I had the capability of doing that. And I didn’t hesitate to do so. And like I said before, I had Frankie, who could pretty much go anywhere. PCC: When the string of Four Seasons hits started happening, that incredible run, what were the big thrills for you? Things like “The Ed Sullivan Show” or chart success? What made the biggest impression on you? GAUDIO: Not being a performer and not feeling that typical adulation, being in front of an audience, you know, the roar of the crowd, the thing that really got me off was - What's the next record? What are we going to do next? And having it come to be. So that was my kick. Once I’d heard it on the radio, the rest of it was secondary. And I didn’t necessarily feel comfortable with all that went with it. And I didn’t have any particular memory of “Ed Sullivan” or any of the shows we did. Louis Armstrong, I remember [laughs]. In that way, it was a strange thing. I was telling my wife the other day, “You know, I don’t even have a picture with Sinatra.” I did an album with the man. I don’t have a picture anywhere with he and I. So it was never something that crossed my mind. Sadly, it was not a smart thing, because my kids would love it. But I just didn’t do it. I was just about getting the music, doing the music. What’s next? Where are we going? And pretty much that was it. The rest of it around me was just around me [laughs]. It never changed my balance. PCC: And were you gradually, constantly picking up the art of producing? Was that always something you were aiming towards? GAUDIO: As I said earlier with “Sherry,” I rarely wrote a song, that I didn’t hear as a record. Now that doesn’t mean that when you get into the collaborative process, things don’t change immensely. You know, you go in with, this is what I think it should be and what it’s going to sound like, but dealing with musicians and Bob Crewe and different takes and that marriage that needs the yin and yang, things turn out differently. But I always had a producer mentality, as opposed to just a songwriter. I never wrote a song, that I can remember, that was just writing a song. It just felt like - here’s the way the record should be. And I suppose, in some respects, it was a big pain in the ass. PCC: The Four Seasons being able to maintain their own popularity and identity during the British Invasion, one of the few American bands to do that, how were you able to meet that challenge? GAUDIO: I didn’t actually think of it as a challenge, because, to be quite frank, when I first heard The Beatles’ early records, “Please Please Me,” we thought of covering. I heard it when we were touring in the U.K and I bought the record and thought, “Hmm, this falsetto thing in here, Frankie could kill this.” So that was considered, but “Walk Like A Man” came along and “Big Girls Don’t Cry,” so that went away. But our label actually picked that master up and a number of others, Vee Jay. But early, early Beatle days, I had no clue that they were going to take over the world. It just didn’t seem to me that there was something so fresh and unusual that they were going to be around forever. Of course, that became apparent after the first couple of years. But initially, it just seemed like British versions of American records. And I didn’t feel it a threat. Had no clue. [Laughs] No clue. I liked it, but I didn’t perceive it to be what it is. The genius, for me, came after a couple of years. PCC: And Vee Jay put out “The Beatles Versus The Four Seasons, International Battle of the Century,” kind of bizarre. GAUDIO: [Laughs] Very bizarre. And it stopped pretty quick. So if you have copies of that, they’re probably worth 5 or $6,000, I’m told, because injunctions flew from everywhere. PCC: And The Four Seasons recording Dylan’s “Don’t Think Twice” under the band name The Wonder Who? - that was a fun record. How did that come about? GAUDIO: My remembrance is probably not Frankie’s. But I remember we made some kind of a mistake. Someone made a mistake. Who made a mistake? I’ll take the blame. We were doing a Dylan/Bacharach album, as I remember. And we were going to put that in. And we cut the track in the wrong key. It just wasn’t working for Frankie. And he started playing around. That voice is Rose Murphy, an old-time singer, great singer. And he always did takes on her, even in the club. So he played with it and everybody’s eyes lit up when he started doing that voice and Bob Crewe went berserk and we finished it that way. Then the problem was, we had two records on the chart at the time. It might have been “C’mon Marianne” and “Can’t Take My Off You.” And they were both in the top 20. And the record label said, “Well, yeah, we think it’s a hit, too, but there’s no way we’re going for three. It’s too ridiculous. We’ll never get it on the radio.” So someone came up with the bright idea, “Don’t tell anybody who it is. Who’s going to know? It doesn’t sound like a typical Four Seasons record.” And it didn’t. And so The Wonder Who? was born. PCC: And Frankie sang in a lower register on “The Sun Ain’t Gonna Shine Anymore.” That was a great song. What was your take on The Walker Brothers’ epic version? GAUDIO: Actually, when Bob and I wrote that, we had The Righteous Brothers in mind. [Laughs] So it became the Walker Brothers and it was like, “Hmm, okay. This’ll work.” If I had to be critical about it, because it’s very similar to Frankie’s version, I just thought the tempo was a little too fast. I just think they took it up too much. But, hey, it was the consummate hit for that song, so I can’t complain too much. It is, by the way, if you were to ask me the question - What is the favorite song you have written? - it would be “The Sun Ain’t Gonna Shine.” PCC: Did that song evolve over time? Or did it come to you quickly? GAUDIO: No, it came together reasonably quick. As I remember, we were in Bob’s writing office. I think it was in the same building as Atlantic Records. It was a cloudy, gloomy day. And what better place to go than “The Sun Ain’t Gonna Shine Anymore”? PCC: Do you tend to labor over songs? Or if it doesn’t happen quickly, do you tend to move on? GAUDIO: Well, “Sherry” was 10 minutes. It says in the show five minutes, so let’s stay with that one. “Rag Doll” should have been quick. But I don’t know why, Bob and I must have spent four weeks on just the last two lines of the song. We could not figure out how to tie it up. So, no, things do come back. There might be a melody, as I stated, with “Can’t Take My Eyes Off You,” where the horn lick was a children’s song being developed. So sometimes stuff like that happens. I think all writers drop things into their mailbox and sometimes don’t pick up the mail [laughs]. And we have stuff around. And it pops in. Sometimes it’s there and it went away and came back. That happens to me a lot. I thought, “Did I steal this from somebody?,” because it sounds familiar. And then I’ll find it somewhere in an archive and remember, “Oh, yeah, I was playing with that on that tape.” And that’s happened to me before. PCC: And then is it a bonus when some other artist picks up on the song, like The Walker Brothers, or The Tremeloes with “Silence Is Golden.” GAUDIO: Yeah. “Silence Is golden,” personally, I never considered a single. And that’s why it was a B-side. So it was terrific when The Tremeloes did it. And they did a great job. “The Sun Ain’t Gonna Shine,” I went into a bit of depression, as the the title was depressing, because I thought Frankie’s version should have been a hit. I thought that was going to be the Frankie Valli solo record. And it just didn’t happen. So, when you do something like that, you’re convinced it’s got merit, and it doesn’t happen, it’s depleting, to say the least. So about seven or eight months later, when The Walker Brothers came around with it, that was a big up for me. It was like, “Yeah, I knew I was right.” [Laughs] I just had the wrong timing. PCC: There had always been comparisons with the harmonies of The Beach Boys. Teaming up with them for the song “East Meets West,” how did that come together? GAUDIO: You know, I don’t know who suggested that, but I found myself in the studio with Brian and Mike Love. And it was a fun project. It was interesting. And I had fun doing it. They were great. They were great to work with. I hung out with Mike for a while. And it was a good time. We had a good time. And, I don’t know, we came out on our own little label or something. And not much happened with it. But it was fun. I would love to make that record over again [laughs] to tell you the truth. It’s done. And it’s okay. I can’t complain. We had a good time with them. I think we’ve always been a little competitive. But we just have different takes on harmonies. PCC: Was that always a healthy thing, to have a sense of competition with all the other artists on the charts in those days? To have the bar always being raised? GAUDIO: Well, I think so. In the case of The Beach Boys, it seemed to be a fun little East versus West thing. There was always the surf thing versus the nitty gritty street thing. And so on and so forth. So it was fun. It was a fun thing. I don’t think anybody really took it serious. But sure, we were competitive. And I think it kind of stoked both of us. PCC: The Seasons had a very cool departure with the socially conscious, concept album, ”Genuine Imitation Life Gazette.” Did you consider that a risk, kind of daring? GAUDIO: I considered that insane. And as it turned out, it probably was. I just had to do it. Some things you just have to do. And risk be damned. And that was one of them. I did realize, going through the project, that this could be jeopardizing to our future. But, I don’t know, I just had to do it. And so I did. Artistically, I’m very proud of that album. But was it good for our careers at that time? Probably not. PCC: The decision to stop touring with the band to focus on studio work and writing, did that come easily, since you didn’t consider yourself to be primarily a performer? GAUDIO: It was not difficult for me. I think Frankie and I were so locked, joined at the hip, across the board, performing - not that I’m a performer, but I was part of how we did it, how we arranged it, what we did live, how we sounded, all that sort of stuff. So I think it probably was a difficult thing for Frankie to deal with, given we weren’t at the top of our game, when I left. But it was just time. And I felt like I wasn’t contributing anything to the stage. He could just as well go out there and perform and do what he does best without me. And it was a little tough on Frankie. I think he would say that. And maybe a disappointment, because we were a musical marriage. And we split. It was amicable. We still have the same partnership. It’s just, I went off and spent two or three years with Motown. And then eventually, he came over to Motown. And that’s where we had “My Eyes Adored You” and eventually, when we left Motown, “Who Loves You” an “Oh, What A Night.” So the whole thing kind of evolved. I did Neil Diamond stuff in the middle. And “Bring Me Flowers.” It was good for me. And ultimately, I think it was good for him. PCC: Your work with Neil Diamond, did the two of you have strong musical chemistry right away? GAUDIO: Yeah, because Neil and I knew each other for a long time. He actually opened a couple of shows for us back in the 60s. We were with the same management office - Fred Weintraub. So there was this family thing. And Marcia Diamond [Neil’s second wife], I knew her well. And Neil. And they moved to Malibu. Judy [Gaudio’s wife] and I moved to Malibu and we ran into each other in the Country Mart or something. And next thing I knew, we were talking and, being 10 miles away from each other, it made sense to start up again. So we did. And had a good run. I think I did six albums with him, maybe seven - “The Jazz Singer” which was a great project. We still have nightly emails. We’re good friends. PCC: ”You Don’t Bring Me Flowers” - that became such a sensation. GAUDIO: Well, I did that record with Neil. He was the first one. He wrote it with Alan and Marilyn Bergman. And it was one of those things like, “The Sun Ain’t Gonna Shine Anymore.” To me, I couldn’t understand why the record company didn’t see it as a single. His version even. It just struck me. It was one of those songs that just grabs you and has such an emotional impact. That didn’t happen. And then the next thing I know, the record company said, “There’s a deejay down somewhere and he’s done some little splicing. And Barbra’s version is in the same key. And the phones are lighting up. And we’re considering trying to put this together.” So they did put it together and said, “Would you produce this?” And I said, “Sure, of course. I did the first one, I’d love to do the second.” And we did it. And bingo. PCC: Another producing highlight - the “Watertown” album. Despite being a cocky kid, and after years of massive success with The Four Seasons, was it still intimidating to work with Frank Sinatra? GAUDIO: You know, I gotta say - and I don’t know even why I’m even saying this - I’ve never been intimidated. I don’t know why. The only person I kinda got a chill with was Louis Armstrong. And that includes Presley. And Frank. Frank was an intimidating force. And I kind of took a lot in, being around with him. I had a huge respect for him. But no, I didn’t feel intimidated, for good or bad [laughs]. I don’t know, maybe I should have. But I remember, when the project started, with Jake Holmes [singer-songwriter] and we wrote, locked ourselves away for a month and did a concept album, which was kind of gutsy, I guess, to begin with. And I just assumed that that’s what we were doing - Frank wanted us to write an album for him. But Frank didn’t think of it that way, apparently. He thought, “Well, these guys are you going to write a couple of songs for me and I’ll pick the best and maybe I’ll record one or two. So when I got the call from Sarge Weiss, his music person, he said, “Well, guess, what, pal - Frank wants to do them all!” I thought to myself - Of course he does. So I guess I never lost this cocky thing. Like I said, if I were somebody on the other side of the street, I’d slap me. PCC: So what was the working relationship like with Sinatra? GAUDIO: It was very good. He was open to not recording it all live. So we did tracking. And he came in and did vocals. He did some live stuff. So it was good. He was very open. You know one of the things about him I remember most was there was no closed door. And even the idea of not one or two takes was a big deal. Because I was petrified about that. How am I going to get everything right, because I work differently than he’s done before. And he was open to doing that. “Okay, I’ll do the vocals tomorrow.” So it was a great situation. I had givenup cigarettes for about six months. And got into the studio - and I guess I was intimidated [laughs] - and I went through three packs. And had no clue until my mother said, “You know, I thought you stopped smoking.” So yeah, the pressure is a whole other thing. PCC: And you worked with his daughter Nancy, as well [“I Love Them All (The Boys in the Band)”]? GAUDIO: Yeah, she’s a sweetheart. It was a good time. Frank called and said I’d to see if you could do something with my daughter. And I did. And I can’t even remember what it was. And I did something with Trini Lopez during that time. PCC: And what sort of experiences did you have, working with Michael Jackson and Diana Ross? GAUDIO: Michael was great. I did “Corner of the Sky” with him. And it was in one of his albums. He was terrific. You know, all the Motown artists were very well shaped, should I say. Berry [Gordy] and company, Suzanne De Passe, and the people there. Everybody had a work ethic. Maybe it was demanded of them, I don’t know. But they all had that get-it-done attitude. They all came in prepared. And working Michael, he was a pleasure. He was a sweetheart. He was just like, “Want me to do it again?” It was a terrific experience. He was such a talent. There wasn’t much I had to tell him. He just did it. PCC: And Diana? GAUDIO: Pretty much the same. Diana’s the same thing. They were all in that same place, again, the work ethic. I would do the record. I’d make the track. I’d do a demo vocal and my impression or my interpretation of how the song should be sung. They’d have it for a few days. They’d learn it and come back in and bang-o, a couple of takes and they were in it. I did, I think, three or four things with her. I did a duet with she and Marvin Gaye, “Pledging My Love,” the old Johnny Ace song That was really great. I loved doing that. And Marvin Gaye was unbelievable, came in with his trailer, from out camping, and came in and was right there. It was the same procedure - “Send me the demo with the vocal and I’ll be there.” PCC: When you’re producing, how much of your own imprint do you want to put on a recording, if it’s not something you’ve written? GAUDIO: Well, with Neil Diamond, it was exactly that type of situation. He did a few things that I had written with Judy. And he did a version of “Sun Ain’t Gonna Shine” also, which is pretty terrific. But, yeah, it was a little bit different for me. I think one of the reasons we had a good relationship, and I did a lot of work with him, was because he respected my take on the song. He knew I would be honest with him - “No, I don’t think this bridge is as good as you can do.” He would work with it. He’s very open to that, as was the case with Sinatra. So it was always good. But it was a little difficult to just produce. I had to watch myself and be very careful of what my function was. PCC: Looking back, what’s the greatest source of pride for you? GAUDIO: Wow! [Laughs] I think the whole scope of the career, the fact that I did enough work to be worthy of a show like “Jersey Boys” and a film. That’s a source of pride for me, that my kids can see something that they never knew about, my family stuff, stuff good or bad, what I was all about. They know probably more about me than they did when I was traveling, doing my thing. So to have a legacy, to have enough that I’ve accomplished to have a legacy, is quite amazing to me. And, being alive to see it on a stage. There’s probably 10 people, if even that, who can score that one. PCC: You probably got a sense of how fleeting the whole thing can be, with The Royal Teens. And now, to see your music living on, half a century later, it must be incredibly gratifying. GAUDIO: Yeah. Particularly “Short Shorts.” It’s a ditty, is what it is. It was a good little record at the time. But for it to last as long as it has - it ran as a Nair commercial for 20 years or something and it may still be running. Yeah, I don’t know why. I guess I’m a hook-y kind of guy [laughs]. PCC: But you must hear all the time what your songs have meant in people’s lives. GAUDIO: Oh, that’s always a thrill. And for me, unlike Frankie, I can stand in front of the theater, especially in the early times of “Jersey Boys,” and listen to the people coming out. Now that’s a big thing. That’s something that not everybody gets to do, because I’m not one of those people who is recognized. It’s the “audio with a G,” you know? - that’s how you pronounce it. That’s terrific. I love being in that place, because I can hear and feel and sense the real people without anybody being intimidated, including myself. I’m just there. And hearing people, and what it meant to them, seeing them fly down the street, and dancing in the aisles, that’s really something special. PCC: After that success and writing the music for the London West End stage adaptation of “Peggy Sue Got Married,” would you like to be involved in other Broadway or West End productions? GAUDIO: Yeah, probably. I haven’t been much into writing songs Doing a score or tackling another theatre piece would be an interesting thing. Listen, I’m pretty intimidated by what’s gone on with “Jersey Boys” [laughs]. So to tackle something and have the aspiration of doing as well is a little daunting. So I really would have to find a project that got me super-excited. PCC: And did you enjoy having another generation discover The Four Seasons’ songs through the “Jersey Babies” children’s album your daughter Danielle assembled a few years ago? GAUDIO: Yeah, my daughter forced me into that one [Laughs]. It is a cute idea. And I have to say, I had fun when I did it. Robby Robinson [Frankie Valli's musical director and keyboardist] put it all together and did the arrangements and stuff. But doing that childlike thing, and hearing “Can’t Take My Eyes Off You,” which, as I said, the horn section originally was for a children’s show, it was interesting to go back there again. So it was a fun project for me, although, if Danielle hadn’t given me a swift kick, it wouldn’t have happened. PCC: Any goals yet to fulfill? Still something you’re striving towards? Or are you content with all you’ve already achieved? GAUDIO: I’ve always been ready for what’s around the corner. Somebody asked me, “Do you have anything up your sleeve?” I said, “No, since ‘Jersey Boys,’ I’ve been wearing short sleeves.” So I don’t have anything planned. There’s nothing specific. But, if something comes along that’s interesting, I certainly am still alive and well. |
