photo by Jeannie Elias

The daughter of Oscar-winning actress Lee Grant and screenwriter Arnold Manoff, she was born in New York City and later raised in Malibu. Manoff made her TV debut on "Welcome Back Kotter." She became a regular on "Soap," a cutting-edge, Susan Harris-created sitcom of the late 70s and early 80s. She later co-starred with Mulligan and McNichol in Harris' "Empty Nest," portraying Carol Weston. That hit show, a "Golden Girls" spin-off, ran for seven seasons.

More recently, Manoff was featured in ABC Family's "State of Grace." For her work on that series, she earned a Jewish Image Award.

She won a Tony for her performance in Broadway's "I Ought to Be in Pictures," skillfully breathing life into Neil Simon's crisp dialogue. She also starred in the movie adaptation. Manoff's film work includes her unforgettable turn as Pink Lady Marty Maraschino in "Grease." Though her appearance in Robert Redford's Academy Award-winning "Ordinary People" is fleeting, Manoff's moving portrayal of a psychiatric patient makes an indelible impression. In "Child's Play," she played Aunt Maggie. After Chucky hammered her in the face, she plummeted out a window. And thus a franchise was born.

Manoff was seen in numerous TV-movies, including "Maid For Each Other," for which she wrote the story. Her series guest shots include "Lou Grant," "Night Court," "Cagney & Lacey," "Murder She Wrote," "The Golden Girls" and "Touched By an Angel."

She has directed episodes of several shows, "Empty Nest," "Sabrina The Teenage Witch" and "Brothers" among them. Returning to the theatrical world, she won the prestigious L.A. Theatre Award for her stage adaptation and direction of her father's 1942 novel, "A Telegram From Heaven."

Now Manoff is impressing with yet another talent. Her first novel, "The Real True Hollywood Story of Jackie Gold," has just been published [Star Alley Press].

In 1999, the relentless paparazzi chase movie star/tabloid sensation Jackie Gold onto her hotel room balcony. Desperate to elude them, she ends up toppling to the ground far below. Trapped in a hospital bed, comatose, she sees and hears staff and visitors chattering. They don't know she's cognizant of all that's going on around her. Jackie drifts into recollections of her life, which play back like scenes in a film -- the troubled childhood and adolescence, the colorful ascent (or is that descent) into celebrity. The price of fame can be exorbitant.

From page one, you'll be hooked. Manoff writes with wit and insight. She delivers fascinating, complex characters and etches vivid descriptions of the people and places springing up in her book.

Jackie is a flawed human being, but readers will find her relatable and root for her. The supporting cast includes Jackie Gold's well-meaning, confused boyfriend, who is People magazine's "Sexiest Man Alive," her success-obsessed, studio head father and her alcoholic, absentee mother. Can the incessant glare of the spotlight obliterate the shadow of neglect that dimmed Jackie's youth? Manoff masterfully blends dark humor and poignancy throughout.

It's a highly entertaining, surprised-filled ride that darts through Malibu, Beverly Hills and Hawaii, while the amoral Hollywood crowd madly romps, pursuing excruciating excess and all that glitters. For them, dysfunction is the predominant art form. Ambition, addiction and abject betrayal abound. Misplaced priorities come back to haunt them. Maybe they all need a brain injury to give them a new perspective.

We enjoyed talking with the engaging Dinah Manoff about her multi-faceted career.

POP CULTURE CLASSICS:
Let's begin with "The Real True Hollywood Story of Jackie Gold." I loved the novel. What was the initial spark? What led you to choose this story to tell?

DINAH MANOFF:
The germ of this started a long, long time ago. It really started when Princess Diana was killed in that tunnel by the paparazzi. And right around that time, I was on a series called "Empty Nest." And I'd had a couple of run-ins with the paparazzi. Nothing big, Always harmless. They'd write stories in the Enquirer, silly little things -- that I'd dyed my hair to match the dog's fur [laughs]. It was always harmless and like, "Oh, those silly papers."

And then one day, a guy showed up at my doorstep from the Enquirer. I had just had my first son. And this guy was there to question his paternity. At my front door. And I was there, in my robe, holding my coffee, with my newborn son in the other room. And that new mother bear rose out of me. And I started to scream. And I chased him off my property, screaming in my robe.

It started a creative spurt of anger that I brought into a writers workshop. And I started writing about what would happen, if a famous person, like Demi Moore, or Lindsay Lohan at the time, what would happen if the paparazzi chased them and caused them almost to die... or to die. And that was the beginning of it. And over the years, I just kind of workshopped the idea and I was playing with it. And at a certain point, I sat down and turned it into the novel.

PCC:
Writing the novel, was that cathartic in giving you an opportunity to ruminate on the madness of Hollywood, to explore the craziness that actors have to face, the tabloid frenzy, if they achieve celebrity?

MANOFF:
I don't know that it was cathartic, in that sense. But it was fun to write about that. Jackie Gold is a great big movie star, which I wasn't. And she's dating People's "Sexiest Man Alive." Well, occasionally that may have been true of me [laughs], but I won't go into that. And her story is that the paparazzi had pursued her and she's telling her life story from the hospital bed, where she's lying in a coma, after jumping off a balcony to escape their rampage.

So for me, writing about Hollywood was the most fun part of the novel to write. For me, the cathartic part was writing about Jackie's childhood, her relationship with her mother, her journey to forgiveness. And writing the drama, as you know, because you read the book, goes back and forth between what's happening in the hospital, as she's fighting for her life, and her reflecting on the life that she's fighting for.

And what was cathartic for me was writing about forgiveness... and what price fame? And I didn't know the novel was going to take me there, when I wrote it. I was just there, writing this journey and I didn't know where it was going to go. And it took me into some really interesting places. Who is ultimately responsible for the kind of attention that the media give us? Are we responsible, because we want attention?

You know, I came out of the womb, raising my hand, saying, "Look at me! Look at me!" That was just my nature [laughs]. But does that mean that you never stop looking at me? Or that you look at me in private? Or that you fly a helicopter over my house? Does it mean that? So that was really interesting to go into.

PCC:
Jackie's childhood years are so vividly rendered. Was her upbringing, having to figure things out for herself to a daunting extent, was that similar to yours?

MANOFF:
In some ways. There are a lot of similarities between Jackie and me. But our stories are not the same. I grew up in Malibu colony, as Jackie did. I grew up in a very, very unique time there, before it was all movie stars, though there were some. Cary Grant was hanging around at that time. And Dyan Cannon. And Lana Turner. It was a very interesting, special time in Malibu colony. But also, in those days, Malibu was a very middle-class town. So there were big discrepancies in the kinds of people who were living there. The movie stars were new to Malibu. The people who had been living there were mostly aircraft workers and Rand McNally people.

My journey, in getting out of Malibu and becoming an actor, is similar in the sense that I became an actor out of feeling unqualified to do anything else. I was a beach kid. I was a juvenile delinquent. But I had been raised in show business. My mother was an actress, Lee Grant. My father was a screenwriter. My stepfather was a producer. And this was the world I knew. I had been cueing my mother on scripts from the time I could read. So I was like, "Oh, well, guess I'll act."

And that's very much what happens to Jackie in the novel. She really falls into acting as just a means of survival and making money. And one thing that I grappled with, that Jackie grapples with in the novel, is the feeling of not having earned the fame, of being a fraud, of it being too easy. Jackie's journey in the novel, she learns to earn her place. She also learned what it is that she really does like and what she really doesn't like.

And that's something that I found in my life, too, as I got older. What is it that I enjoy? Do I really like being on camera? Not really. Do I like being on stage? Yeah, a lot. Do I like going to parties and making small talk? No, [laughs] I simply hate it. Do I like having a dinner party with four people? Yeah. And I think as Jackie is lying in her coma and having all these exchanges in the hospital, she kind of finds herself... God that was a long-winded answer.

PCC:
[Laughs] No, it was insightful. As for the fame aspect, did you gradually figure out that obsessively chasing fame would not be a healthy pursuit? Or did you realize that from the outset?

photo by Arthur Mortell

MANOFF:
Here's where Jackie and I really differ. I never chased fame. I was never interested in being famous. I was interested in being a working actor. And I had very practical sense of that, because I had been raised in a matriarchy. My mother always worked. She was one of the few mothers in that generation I knew who always worked. And she was very clear that she was working to pay the rent. And fame came to her as a byproduct of being a working actor. So one thing to my credit, I will say, is that I had a work ethic, in terms of that.

Jackie, on the other hand, is courting fame. She's ambivalent about it. But I think that she really is feeding on the attention and on the notoriety that it brings her.

There is one part of the novel I had written and cut out. I was sorry to cut it out, but it didn't serve the story. But what I wrote about was, what we feel as celebrities, what Jackie felt as a celebrity, when she would shine her light on someone -- like a fan, or someone in a restaurant. She knew she had this power to make or break their day, just by virtue of being famous. And that was something, to a lesser degree, that I felt at the peak of my career. And I thought it was such an interesting byproduct of celebrity, that people will feel more important if the celebrity pays attention to them... and the power that the celebrity feels, in knowing they have that effect.

PCC:
With your mother having a successful career, were you always aware of the reality of being an actor, far removed from the fantasy of glamour?

MANOFF:
You know, the business has changed so much. When my mother was very famous, when she was winning Oscars and Emmys and in the spotlight, there was no internet, there was no TMZ, no cell phones. And so there was a more controlled atmosphere to that kind of fame than there is now. There were tabloids, but there wasn't so much of an exposé, as she would have received now, if she were that kind of famous. Nor was that there when I was at the peak of my career either. Thank God [laughs].

PCC:
Did you spend a lot of your time, while growing up, on sets or backstage at theatres?

MANOFF:
Yeah, I was a backstage kid. I was a kid that fell asleep backstage or at the Russian Tea Room in the banquette, while my mother was out having drinks after the show. And I hung out on the set of "Peyton Place." Yeah, I grew up in that atmosphere. I didn't know anything different. That was normal life to me.

PCC:
Your mother is such a great actress. Was she an inspiration to you? Did you want to emulate her?

MANOFF:
I want to emulate her now. She's 96. She looks freakin' fabulous. She gets on the bus and goes down Broadway to her Pilates class every week. She's my hero and my champion. In those years, when I was a young actress, I wanted to be anybody but her. I was very rebellious. We had a very adversarial relationship through my teens and early twenties. And we both had to learn a lot to grow towards each other, especially on our career paths.

At a certain point, my mother was very critical of me as a young actress, very, very critical. And it came out of fear. It came out of her fear for me not succeeding. And it came out of her knowing that I was really acting by the seat of my pants. And she was a very trained, crafted actress. So that's another thing, as you know, I explored in Jackie, her feeling of just being lucky. And I felt just lucky.

But at a certain point, as I evolved as an actor, evolved as a person, in my thirties, I said to my mother, "I don't want you to criticize my acting anymore. I just want you to tell me that you love me, good job, keep going, because I just want you to be my mom, not my acting coach." And she was very taken aback. [Laughs]

And I said, "That's the rule. I just want you to be my mom, who thinks I'm great, no matter what." And it changed our whole relationship. It's so much better now. She really learned. And I didn't know that's what I needed from her. But that's what I needed from her. And we're very, very close. And we have been for many years now. We've been very close for 30 years. But in the early years, I was very intimidated by her fame. She was so respected.

PCC:
The fact that both your mother and father were blacklisted during the McCarthy era, that shadow, that monumental injustice, did that color your childhood?

MANOFF:
Yeah. It's a really good question. Yes, in ways that I probably didn't understand until I was much older. But I grew up in a house, where, I almost see it in my mind as black and white, like a black-and-white film, like George Clooney's film about the blacklist ["Good Night, and Good Luck"]. That's what my childhood looks like -- smoky rooms, pads of yellow legal paper, tense men making notes... and my mother standing in the corner with her hands gripped. That's what I remember as a child.

It was a very tense childhood, my early, early years. My mother was blacklisted for 10 years. My father died blacklisted. And there was this sense, growing up, always, that there was an enemy. That was something that I grew up with as a kid, the other, the enemy. And that's something, as an adult, that I've had to make my own kind of peace with, especially these days, when everything is so polarized, to try to stay in a place of compassion. It's very difficult. Very difficult. So yes, the blacklist did color my childhood. And it certainly made my mother who she was -- in good ways and in bad ways. In both.

PCC:
I read that your father and his friends, what they endured when they were blacklisted actually served as the basis for the Martin Ritt film "The Front."

As Marty in Grease

MANOFF:
Yes, my father, Walter Bernstein and Abe Polonsky were three top screenwriters and television writers in New York. And they couldn't work during the blacklist. So they hired this nobody guy, who Woody Allen played in the film of "The Front," and he took all the credit for their scripts. But they were getting paid and writing, while he was the one pretending to be the three of them, like he was this amazing genius [laughs], this prolific writer. And he was fronting for these three guys. Kind of an amazing history.

PCC:
And then in your career, it must have been an important step to get a role in the series "Soap," such an innovative sitcom, and one that introduced you to Susan Harris [who later produced "Golden Girls" and "Empty Nest.")

MANOFF:
Oh, yeah. I was a lucky, lucky actress, really. And I had been such a big fan of the show. I came on in the second or third season. And I had been watching the show and I could not believe that I was going to get to go and be part of it. It was like walking into the pages of a fairy tale and going, "Oh, my God, there's Hansel! There's Gretel!" [Laughs] It was like, "There's Billy Crystal! There's Burt!" [the character played by Richard Mulligan]. So yeah, I was really, really lucky.

PCC:
And then you had a guest shot on "Mork and Mindy." So did you experience the full blast of Robin Williams' comic energy?

MANOFF:
Oh, yeah. You know, at the time, to be quite honest, I was not quite the sober actress that I became. And I have to say that I was so intimidated on "Mork and Mindy"... I can't believe I'm telling you this story. I'm losing my filter... I may not have been as sober on that episode [laughs] as a professional actress should have been. I was really scared and so I got loaded. And boy, when I watch that episode, I can really see it.

And the interesting thing is, oh, God, [laughs] many years later, I ran into Robin Williams and I made an amends to him. I said, "I gotta tell you. I'm so sorry. I was really high during that episode of 'Mork and Mindy.'" And he said, "Me, too!" [Laughs] Listen, it was the 80s, what can I tell you?

PCC:
And to have your first movie, "Grease," be such a sensation, that must have been life-changing.

MANOFF:
Yeah, I guess it was. You know, at the time, as a young actress, I wasn't an ambitious actress. I never had that sense of, "Ooh, where is that going to lead my career?" I was just like, "Wow, here I landed now! Wow, that's really interesting." And when "Grease" first came out, it came out to very lukewarm reviews. So I never saw the huge success that it became, coming.

In fact, I think the success of "Grease" has really built up over the years of new generations watching it. I mean, it came out with a big splash, but it wasn't like huge, huge at the time. It wasn't like a respected film. It didn't have iconic status until years later.

PCC:
And why do you think it has aged so well?

Getting Hammered in Child's Play

MANOFF:
Well, the music is great fun. The story, it harkens back to a time that was less politically correct and more innocent [laughs]. And John Travolta is the sexiest thing anyone has ever seen on the movie screen, ever, still. I mean, when he does that star turn in the beginning of the film, it's stunning. I think the dancing, the chemistry... I could go on.

PCC:
I guess now, you're forever a Pink Lady, amidst all of your other accomplishments. Was there a great camaraderie amongst the Ladies, during filming?

MANOFF:
Yes. We loved each other. We all shared a trailer. Well, I think Stockard (Channing) had her own trailer, as I recall. But Didi [Conn] and Jamie [Donnelly] and I had a trailer. We had so much fun.

PCC:
And what are your recollections of Olivia Newton-John from that time?

MANOFF:
Olivia is -- and was then -- the sweetest, nicest, most genuine, down-to-earth person. No star shit around her at all. She was just so humble and darling. And she's still that way. I was in touch with her by email a while back and she's still just the loveliest woman. I'm praying for her, because she's in a cancer fight and has been for years. But yeah, she's really something.

But during "Grease," I was just following Stockard around, because I thought she was just the coolest person I had ever encountered in my whole life [laughs] and the best actress. And that worked for my character, as well.

PCC:
Was there a key to finding the character of Marty?

MANOFF:
Yeah. I based Marty on a girl who would want to be Marilyn Monroe, so she was always kind of emulating what she thought were Marilyn Monroe lips or shoulders or moves... but kind of underneath it, she was just a neighborhood girl. Like she was putting on her act.

PCC:
What do you think about Paramount Plus doing a Pink Ladies' prequel series?

With Walter Matthau in "I Ought to Be in Pictures"

MANOFF:
You know, I heard about it. I read a little bit about it. I think, great. There's always somebody doing something with "Grease" [laughs]. It comes and goes and there's a flurry and then it dies down. My favorite thing about having been in "Grease" is that every Halloween, I get a gaggle of Pink Ladies at my front door. And that floats my boat.

PCC:
You had such a memorable role in "Ordinary People." Even though it was his directorial debut, Robert Redford already had a way with actors. Revelatory performances by Timothy Hutton and Mary Tyler Moore. And you, with very limited screen time, give a haunting performance.

MANOFF:
Oh, Robert Redford was magical. I mean, to work with Robert Redford, God! Sometimes I look back and go, "God, I can't believe I got to work with Robert Redford!" [Laughs] I feel so lucky.

He really created that performance that I did, that I gave in that movie. I had a one-day shoot on that. And it was a big scene, but it was self-contained. I didn't have to shoot any other days. So I came in and he wasn't getting what he wanted out of me in the scene. And I was getting frustrated. And he was getting frustrated. And he said to me, "Okay, this time, let's shoot the scene and you're just all happy." I said, "Okay." Then he said, "Let's shoot the scene now and go all sad." I said, "Okay." And then he cut it together in the editing room, the way he saw the scene.

He created the performance. And I always felt that was so incredible, that he had a vision in his mind of what it should be and, even though I couldn't get there for him, he knew how to get the performance, on screen, by hook or by crook [laughs]. You know what I mean? So amazing.

I think when that first happened to me, I felt kind of ego-bruised about it. Now when I look back, I think, "God, how cool, how genius, how inventive!" And in the novel, I have Jackie Gold go through something very similar, because that made a big impression on me as an actor. She could not deliver in a scene and she eventually found a way to tap into what she needed to get there.

PCC:
Then, "I Ought to Be in Pictures," the stage version, how much was Neil Simon hands-on during the rehearsal process?

MANOFF:
Oh, my God, completely. We were like marionettes [laughs]. He was the puppet master, boy, let me tell you. How lucky was I to get to work with Neil Simon? What a guy. What a genius. And a taskmaster. When you do a Neil Simon play, you do it exactly as written. There is no improvisation. The pauses are where he's written them. The comas are where he's written them. You don't change a line, a word, nothing. And it was, for me, really the beginning of learning to be an actress, of learning discipline.

Herb Ross was the director of "I Ought to Be in Pictures" on stage and boy, they whipped me into shape [laughs]. And it was good. And I loved working with them. And it was hard. And it taught me a craft, a craft that I had not had the self-discipline to go and search out for myself yet.

PCC:
I've read that Tony Curtis was originally cast as your father in the play, before Ron Leibman took over. Did you actually rehearse with Tony?

MANOFF:
You know, that is a story that would take me an hour to tell you. That is its own podcast, it's own article. I can't even tap into that one, but let me just say that it was quite an experience, a life-changing experience working with Tony. I think there's actually a whole chapter in Neil Simon's memoir about "I Ought to Be in Pictures" with Tony in Los Angeles, yeah.

PCC:
Winning a Tony Award for your performance, how important of a validation was that?

MANOFF:
It was a shock to me. And I wasn't ready for it, in the same way as when I had my first baby shower and all that attention came at me and I was sitting there in that chair and there were 30 women throwing onesies and diaper pails at me and loving on me. It was so wonderful, but taking that much attention, I don't even know how to describe it. It was very hard.

And I felt I didn't deserve it. I'm not saying in terms of the performance. I think the performance was Tony-worthy. But I think I, as an actor, at the time, I felt, boy, I just haven't paid enough dues for this to come my way.

And back to your question about how the blacklist affected my family and affected me -- growing up, there was always a sense that my parents had suffered. They suffered a great deal. My mother had done all this work to get around the blacklist and taught theatre and taught acting and gone on the road and done everything she could to keep working during the blacklist. And there I was, on my first play, and they were giving me a Tony Award. And I just felt like, "Who am I?" And that's okay [laughs]. It's okay.

I think that later in my 30s and 40s, I felt like I deserved my place in the business and I deserved whatever praise and blame I had received. I felt like I had my chair. But at that time I didn't. I just felt like I had been flying around like a little kite and someone went, "Oh, I choose you! You're the kite that I want!" And I was like, "Huh?"

PCC:
Having had that stage success, the adaptation to film, was that a smooth segue?

MANOFF:
No, it was not. The film was very disappointing to me. I was very self-conscious on camera. Herb Ross had decided to take the play into a much darker adaptation on film. It couldn't hold that. It felt heavy, instead of light and fun and Neil Simon and funny. I lost whatever had made that performance sing on stage. It was so laden and self-conscious. And I was pretty fearful and miserable during the filming of it. So I still, to this day, can't watch it. I see all that.

PCC:
So even working with Walter Matthau didn't lighten the mood during filming?

MANOFF:
You know, I think had I been more confident and had I liked myself more at that time, I think I could have had a better time with Walter. Walter was having a great time. He was marvelous and inventive and creative. But the film was dark. If you look at it, even the lighting was dark in it. The mood was dark in it. I wasn't encouraged to be free, the way I had been on stage. I just think it was a combination of all those things.

It's one of those -- I wish I could go back and do-it-overs. You know? I don't have regrets, necessarily. But I'd like a second chance. And I still dream about that part. I dream about having a do-over there.

PCC:
But you did have the opportunity for another big success on stage with "Leader of the Pack."

MANOFF:
Oh, I wouldn't call that a big success [laughs].

PCC:
You played Ellie, when she was young?

MANOFF:
I played Ellie Greenwich [the legendary songwriter], uh-huh. "Leader of the Pack" was kind of a fiasco. But it was a fun fiasco. We went down in flames. But we had a damn good time. Oh, man, the critics just murdered us.

PCC:
But the music was amazing.

MANOFF:
The music was amazing. It had been a huge hit off-Broadway. And then they brought it to Broadway. And my dear, darling, long-departed friend Michael Peters directed and choreographed it. But unfortunately, they Broadway-fied it. They made it into a spectacle, dazzle. And it took out the soul of the piece. They tried to turn it into something that it really wasn't. And we all tried our damnedest to make it succeed. I mean, we really all put our best foot forward out there. But it couldn't hold that kind of production value, it just couldn't. It could have been re-thought, maybe.

Maybe they should have taken it out of town for about a year and tried out a bunch of stuff [laughs]. We actually had like a four-month preview period, in front of audiences. And every night they'd say, "You know, we're going to lose this song and add this song.""Another song? We've got to learn another song? And we're going to lose our favorite song?"

There was a whole breakdown song I had called "Rock of Rages." It's still there in a very, very truncated version of what it was originally. Originally, it was this kind of nightmare sort of breakdown song and dancers would pick me up and twirl me like I was doing a cartwheel in the air, while singing and having a nervous breakdown [laughs]. Thank God, they cut it. It was like living out an acting fantasy, to be twirled around and singing and doing all that. But I don't know if you ever saw the musical of "Carrie" [an infamous flop] on Broadway. This number was "Carrie"-worthy. [Laughs] Anyway it came and went.

PCC:
One project that certainly hasn't gone away is "Child's Play." What was it like playing opposite Chucky?

MANOFF:
Next question [Laughs]. Well, you know, Chucky was a good guy, but I think he was a little misguided, misunderstood. He had a rough upbringing, rough childhood.

Anyway, doing "Child's Play" was a blast. It was light; it was fun. I got to do my version of horror film acting, you know -- "What's behind the wall? I think I hear a sound. No, everything's okay... Oh! I'm going to die!" [Laughs]

PCC:
You definitely had a classic death scene.

MANOFF:
Yeah. It was really fun. Catherine Hicks was a doll... I mean a living doll. But I'm glad to say I was Chucky's first victim. It carries some weight in some circles.

PCC:
And then "Empty Nest," it must have been fun to work with Richard Mulligan again, such a fine comedic actor.

MANOFF:
Yeah, but working with Richard, fun was the least part of it. It was fun, but it was important and it was family. And it was intimate. I loved him so much. And he loved me. We were very, very close. And Kristy also. Those first four years, when Kris was on the show, we had such a good time. We laughed so hard. And David Leisure. I'm still in touch with Kris and David. But yeah, Richard was a genius. And he was the captain of our ship. And I miss him.

PCC:
And Kristy, you and she had great chemistry. The contrast between your two characters on "Empty Nest" worked so well. You had worked with her in an episode of "Family"?

MANOFF:
Oh, yeah, yeah. It was one of my first jobs. Kris was 14 at the time. I think I was 17 at the time, something like that. Maybe I was older. I've been lying about my age for so many years, I can't remember what the truth is. {Laughs] But yeah, we did "Family" and we had such a good time together. I'm not sure exactly how old she was. All I remember is, she didn't have a driver's license. But we got along great. And I was so excited to pair with her again on "Empty Nest."

PCC:
And the crossover with "Golden Girls," they guested on "Empty Nest" and you appeared on a couple of their episodes?

MANOFF:
Yeah, we would go back and forth. Our sound stages were literally across the lot from each other. I mean, it would take 60 seconds to walk from "The Golden Girls" set to the "Empty Nest" set. So we had like a literal crossover all the time.

We were a spin-off of their show. Richard was on their show as their next-door neighbor. And originally, in the pilot for "Empty Nest," Rita Moreno played his wife. And then they decided to just go with Richard being an empty nester and having these daughters. So they restarted the pilot with Kristy and me... and David and Park Overall... and Richard. I think they wanted to explore him as a single guy. I think they thought there was more fun to be had with that.

But it was always like [laughs], a crossover appearance on "The Golden Girls" meant you rang the doorbell, Rue or Bea or Estelle or Betty would answer the door, you'd say your line, they'd say their line, you say your line, they say their line, you say your line, they slam the door in your face and you go back. [Laughs] That's basically what a crossover episode was like. It was always fun. You'd get paid a whole episode's salary for going over to the "The Golden Girls" and doing four lines.

PCC:
And what were your impressions of each of the Golden Girls?

MANOFF:
Well, each of them was -- and Betty still is -- a treasure, in their own way. Complicated. Complicated women. I got to know Estelle quite well, because she ended up being on our show for the last year or two. And I loved Estelle. I mean, I deeply, deeply loved her. She was a great lady and a real pro. And funny. I mean a funny person, not just a funny actress.

Bea was very complicated and very interesting... and very likable in some ways and not likable in other ways. She ran a tough set. For instance, she did not allow any gum-chewing on the "Golden Girls" stage. And I got sworn at, when I was over there chewing gum. She was quite tough. But I also kind of found that, with Bea, it was like, "Oh, it's just Bea Arthur being Bea Arthur." You know? I mean, how cool to be yelled at by Bea Arthur! [Laughs]

And Betty is as darling as she seems. And Rue was charming. I didn't get to know Rue. But she was always nice and charming to me.

PCC:
And why do you think "Golden Girls" remains such a phenomenon? It seems to appeal to all ages.

MANOFF:
The chemistry. Susan Harris' writing. The characters were created for longevity. There's still never been four broads who have brought better humor or edginess to sitcom television. And it broke ground. I mean, they were talking about their freakin' vaginas at a time when, first of all, older women didn't. Second of all, no one on TV did. Nobody did. And it made us hysterical. It still makes us hysterical, to laugh at that.

PCC:
You're based in Washington state these days?

MANOFF:
Yes, I live on an island, a half an hour from Seattle.

PCC:
I saw that, in addition to your other creative activities, you had been teaching acting and improv at a women's prison -- that must have been very rewarding.

MANOFF:
Yes. I haven't been allowed back since Covid, unfortunately. I taught there for three years, with another friend of mine. I started an acting program as a part of their high school 21+ program [which enables participants to earn a diploma]. It's for women who had never gotten a high school degree. This was an elective credit.

And then I brought in a friend of mine who was a retired screenwriter who lives on the island and she started a writing program there. And then I brought in a friend who was an artist, who was not currently working. She started an art program there. And I called myself the Dean of Creative Arts at Purdy Correctional Institute. And it was so fabulous and rewarding for me. And hopefully, it gave the women some outlets that they had never had before.

I know that, in my class, women discovered things about themselves that they no idea that they felt. And some of the stuff I read that came out of the writing classes was really amazing. So I'm hoping, when Covid's over, we can go back. I think I get more out of it than they get out of it, honestly. I think selfishly, for me, I get out of it more than they get out of it. I do. But I want it. [Laughs]

PCC:
So for both teacher and pupils, it's self-discovery through acting and writing?

MANOFF:
I think so. A lot of the women that I met at Purdy -- and we're working with women who are from minimum, medium and max -- most of the women I have worked with have never been exposed to theatre or to any kind of theatrical culture, outside of what they see on television or on the internet. So giving them these little plays, working in improv exercises with them, giving them a chance...

You know, prison is so tightly controlled. I mean they cannot move their stuff out of line without getting a citation. But in class, they could swear, they could touch each other. We explored in class. There would be times when we would all be laughing so hard, the guards would come to make sure everything was okay [laughs].

There was something happening in the classroom that they were not permitted in other parts of their life there. So from that, I felt like I was giving them something. And I don't know where that leads. I'm not stupid enough to think any of them come out and become actors, nor do I care. But did they have a better day? Yeah, I think they had a better day. And that's enough. A day in that shitty place where they can laugh that day? That's great. To have some power? That's great.

PCC:
Are you working on a new novel now?

MANOFF:
I am meandering into a new novel. I can't say "working on it" yet, because I'm not sitting down every day with it. But I'm dancing with it a little [laughs].

PCC:
And "Jackie Gold," were there points along the way, as you wrote, when you thought about eventually adapting it for the screen?

MANOFF:
You know, I don't think that far ahead anymore, about anything, especially anything related to show business. I have three unproduced screenplays sitting in my files, from many, many years ago, that I tried really hard to get on.

One of the things that I love about writing a novel is that it's its own product. It's nice when people read it, but I don't have to worry about somebody else taking it and turning it into a product. It's done. I did it. It's mine. So in terms of where it goes next? That's just a crapshoot to me at this point. I'm only concerned about the next one. Then I'll sit down and write when I want to write. I know some people are sending it out, making inquiries about it. But I don't even follow that. Would it be nice if Reese Witherspoon's production company read it and said, "Oh, my God! This is the next greatest thing"? It would be nice. But I don't think about it.

PCC:
Well, Jackie Gold would be a fabulous role.

MANOFF:
Yes. She's a great role, a great character.

PCC:
Are you just focused on writing and teaching or might we hope to see you back on the screen soon?

MANOFF:
I doubt it. It would take a lot to get me in front of the camera [laughs]. Either a great deal of money or something that I just felt so compelled to do. I don't like to go too far out of my comfort zone these days. Being on camera makes me nervous. And I don't like to be nervous. I don't want to be worried about how I look or sound or act or perform anymore. I like talking to you about my book. But I don't like being on the spot. I just don't.

PCC:
Well, a lot of the work you've already done on screen has proven to be timeless.

MANOFF:
Thank you.

PCC:
To this day, my grown daughters still enjoy re-watching "Grease."

MANOFF:
I love that. That's so cool. I'm glad I have that history. I'm glad I can still touch people... from afar [laughs].

PCC:
"Golden Girls" is their favorite sitcom. The younger one is an "Empty Nest" fan, too.

MANOFF:
No way! That's so funny.

PCC:
And, of course, there's a cult following for Chucky, as well.

MANOFF:
Oh, my God. I'll tell you a really funny story about Chucky. So I was teaching in my women's prison class and there was a woman, I couldn't get to her. She just had her arms folded. She was shut down. She did not want to participate. She was doing it for the extra credit for her high school degree, but she did not want to be in some actor's acting class.

So we were sitting around in a circle and we were talking about movie genres. And we started talking about horror movies. And I said, "Well, I was in a horror movie." And one of the girls said, "Oh, which one?" I said, "'Child's Play.' I was Chucky's first victim." And this woman, her head swiveled slowly around to look at me. And she said, "You're Aunt Maggie?" [Laughs] I said, "Yes, I'm Aunt Maggie." And from that day on, I had her in the palm of my hand. And I thought, "Well, if nothing else, Chucky gave me the gift of this woman. She then participated in everything we did. So funny [Laughs].

For more information on this actor/author, please visit dinahmanoff.org.