by Paul Freeman

When you ride on the ferries in Liverpool, Gerry Marsden’s wonderfully wistful vocal comes wafting through the speakers. And you’re transported instantly to the ‘60s. “Ferry Cross The Mersey,” one of the finest ballads of the British Invasion era, creates a rush of warm sentiments and memories.

In his timeless song, Marsden, who recorded many classic hits with Gerry and The Pacemakers, sings, “This land’s the land I love. And here I’ll stay.” And stay he did. Other Liverpudlians left for London, New York or L.A. Marsden, though he maintains a residence in Spain, never stopped calling Liverpool his home.

You can recapture the exuberant fun of Gerry and The Pacemakers through the new DVD documentary, “It’s Gonna Be All Right 1963-1965” (Reelin’ In The Years Productions).

Marsden can bring an audience to tears with such ballads as “You’ll Never Walk Alone,” “I’ll Be There” and “Don’t Let The Sun Catch You Crying,” and bring them to their feet with such rollicking rockers as “It’s Gonna Be All Right,” “A Shot of Rhythm and Blues” and “Dizzy Miss Lizzy.” You can feel his sunny grin in such tunes as “I Like It,” “How Do You Do It?” and “I’m The One.” He epitomizes the irrepressible Mersey beat.

Joining vocalist/guitarist Marsden in the original lineup were brother Freddie Marsden (drums), Les Maguire (piano) and Les Chadwick (bass).

The Pacemakers’ first three singles shot to number one. They were the second band signed to a management deal by Brian Epstein, following The Beatles. Marsden’s songwriting skills helped The Pacemakers keep pace with The Fab Four. Their U.S. TV debut on “The Ed Sullivan Show” was so impressive, the host invited them to return the following week. The Pacemakers’ 1965 movie “Ferry Cross The Mersey” remains a highly enjoyable depiction of that era’s Liverpool scene.

After the original Pacemakers broke up in 1967, Marsden went on to stardom in London’s West End musicals, as well as in the children’s TV series “The Sooty Show.” He is once again touring, with a new version of The Pacemakers, delighting audiences of all ages.

In the ‘80s, Marsden re-recorded versions of “You’ll Never Walk Alone” (which had become an anthem for Liverpool football fans) and “Ferry Cross The Mersey (an all-star version that included Paul McCartney). Both reached number one, with all profits going to charity.

A noted humanitarian Marsden, received an M.B.E. for his charity work. He is now a freeman of Liverpool (the city’s highest honour) and will soon become an Honourary Fellow of Liverpool’s John Moores University.

The affable Liverpool legend was kind enough to chat with Pop Culture Classics.

POP CULTURE CLASSICS:
The new DVD ‘It’s Gonna Be All Right.’ from Reelin’ In The Years’, is terrific. What’s the feeling you get, watching those vintage performances?

GERRY MARSDEN:
It’s fun, actually. Takes me back to my youth. They were good times. We had a good laugh. It really was fun.

PCC:
Are you surprised that the music holds up so well?

GERRY:
The thing was, the songs are very simple. Simple lyrics, simple music, simple melodies. And the kids could associate with it. The songs were easy to remember. We do the concerts today, I walk on stage and they sing every word with me. So it’s great. They know all the songs. And they enjoy it. Yes, I’m very pleased that these songs have stayed around. And the answer is that it’s just very simple music.

PCC:
And the music seems to have caught on with the younger generations, as well.

GERRY:
Yes, that’s the nice part. That’s been the bonus. Because we get lots of the kids coming to the shows. And I say, ‘Did your mum and dad force you to come?’ And they say, ‘No, we want to see the bands who made the records.’ And they’re great. That’s a nice plus.

PCC:
When did you first realize that you had a voice that could move people?

GERRY:
I sang a song when I was five, at the top of an air raid shelter. I sang ‘Ragtime Cowboy Joe’ and I thought, ‘Yeah, they love this. This is what I want to do.’ And my father played the ukulele and sang and I saw how much fun he gave people. So I thought I’d love to do that, too. From then on, I was in church choir, school choir, the scouts choir. I loved it.

PCC:
Getting into skiffle, was that just a fun pastime, or were you already taking musically seriously?

GERRY:
No, that was fun, because you could play the music with very simple instruments, like a washboard, a tea-chest bass, an old tin can and a guitar. So it was fun. We just played around Liverpool, around the clubs, anywhere we could play, basically. And that’s when I first met The Beatles and their Quarrymen skiffle group. So we had our bands going around. It was just great fun. We never thought we’d ever make a record.

PCC:
And when you first encountered The Quarrymen, was that just another band or...?

GERRY:
Yeah, they just became dear friends. And we grew up together from skiffle into rock ‘n’ roll and rhythm & blues. John was my best friend. We had some good times together.

PCC:
What were your first impressions of John?

GERRY:
He was great. He had the same sense of humor as I did. He was a good lad, John. I enjoyed his company.

PCC:
You’d already played uke and banjo, did you teach yourself guitar?

GERRY:
Well, we couldn’t afford to go to lessons, so you had to sit down and practice and practice and practice... and listen. And that’s how we picked up what we did.

PCC:
When you were getting the American records from the ships that docked in Liverpool, were you aware that white American kids weren’t even getting the opportunity to hear these rhythm & blues artists?

GERRY:
We didn’t realize it until we actually got over to the States and they said, ‘When did you write that song?’ And I said, ‘It’s American. It’s Fats Domino or Little Richard or Ray Charles.’ So that’s when we realized that they weren’t getting the music as much as we were in Liverpool.

PCC:
When you segued from skiffle to rock ‘n’ roll, was it the energy of that new music that really got to you?

GERRY:
The piano. That’s what got to me. I wanted a piano in the band, because I loved rock ‘n’ roll piano and the blues piano. So we got a piano player into the group. And that’s when I realized, this is the music for me.

PCC:
Having your brother in the band, was that a plus, being able to share the adventure with him?

GERRY:
Yeah, well, from my early days, Fred had always been playing the drums in the band. So it was just another step. Fred was there. That was it.

PCC:
And the rest of the band’s lineup, how difficult was it to find the right mix?

GERRY:
It was simple. There’s a lot of music people around Liverpool. And you just played with them and then you said, ‘Okay, I’m starting a band. Do you want to join in?’ We had lots of different guys playing at different times. And the ones on the records were people I knew. And I said, ‘We’re going to make some records now. Chad, do you want to play bass?’ ‘Yes, please.’ And Les Maguire on keyboards. It was very simple. There were loads of musicians in and around Liverpool.

PCC:
But these particular guys, did they lend their own personalities that added to the band’s appeal?

GERRY:
I think, yes. I think Maguire was more of a jazzy pianist. Like his solo in ‘How Do You Do It?’ is very jazz orientated. And there’s Chad, who was just a nice guy playing a nice piece of bass.

PCC:
When the band was rehearsing in your family’s parlour, did you dream of stardom? Did you sense that this might take off?

GERRY:
No, not at all. It was only when Brian Epstein came and told me that he’d just signed up The Beatles and could he look after us, because he thought he might get us a record deal. And I said, ‘What!? Certainly, Brian! Yes, please, my friend! Whoo!’ And then we got the record deal and from then on we thought, ‘Bloody hell, this is good.’ That’s when everything changed.

PCC:
What were Brian’s special gifts as a person and as a manager?

GERRY:
He had a great charisma, God bless him. He was a lovely guy, very nice, very straight-talking. He was just a better class, our Brian, God bless him. I miss Brian. He was good for us. He was a good lad.

PCC:
Was it difficult when he added a lot of artists to his roster and had to devote a lot of time to The Beatles?

GERRY:
Sure. But who could compete with The Beatles? So I knew he’d have to spend more time with them. And I got a chance to move to another agency and I turned it down to stay with Brian. So it was a bit of a pain. But the man, he took me off the railway and put me on the stage, in the big time. So God bless him. Not a problem.

PCC:
What was the atmosphere like in Liverpool, when the world was suddenly focusing attention on the city?

GERRY:
It was rockin’. It had rocked forever, but when everybody was comin’ over, people from the States were so excited to come to Liverpool. And I said, ‘What?!’ It was really rockin.’ It was all happening. Everyone was pleased. I saw the foreigners coming into Liverpool to see what it was all about. It was a great fun time.

PCC:
Having been inspired by American rockers, it must have been a thrill to share the bill with Gene Vincent at Liverpool Stadium early in your career.

GERRY:
Oh, yeah, absolutely. And when we got to the States and met and played with people like Ray Charles, Fats Domino, Little Richard, Chuck Berry. Wow! These were all the people we loved. It was absolutely brilliant. And they were all great people. Very nice people.

PCC:
Were you daunted when you were on the same bills? Or did you just feel that you belonged at that point?

GERRY:
No, we just wanted to get on stage and with play them, with The Everly Brothers, The Righteous Brothers, people like that. I mean, these were great people and we had the chance to play with them on shows. We just couldn’t wait to meet them.

PCC:
It was very cool in the “T.A.M.I. Show” when you shared the opening segment with Chuck Berry, kind of the first generation of rock meets the next generation.

GERRY:
[Laughs] I know. Good old Chuck. God bless him. I mean, these were people we loved, but it was very weird to be playing on the same show with him... and talking to him, as mates, just chatting away. Bloody hell. Fabulous! We were only kids and it was great.

PCC:
I had read that The Beatles and The Pacemakers actually did a show as one band? GERRY [Laughs]. That was in Litherland Town Hall, which is in Liverpool. We played regularly together and we said, ‘I know what we’ll do tonight. We’ll just all go on.’ And we called it The Beatmakers. [Laughs again]. That was a great night. I wish we would have had a tape recorder to tape it.

PCC:
Pete Best was still with The Beatles at that time?

GERRY:
Yeah, Pete was lovely. Great fella, Peter. I liked him.

PCC:
Did you play at his mum’s club, The Casbah?

GERRY:
Oh, yeah, everybody went down there now and again. We didn’t do it a lot. But yes, we played there. There were loads of clubs in Liverpool.

PCC:
DId you get any sense of why Pete was dropped from The Beatles?

GERRY:
I think Brian Epstein wanted Paul to be the good-looking one. That was the reason why.

PCC:
The Pacemakers, like The Beatles, kind of grew up, as performers, in Hamburg. Why was that such a spawning ground for British bands in the early 60s?

GERRY:
That was our apprenticeship of music, basically. We’d never been out of Liverpool and a guy came and said, ‘Come to Hamburg. They’re opening some clubs.’ So we opened up a club called The Top Ten and The Beatles went to the Kaiserkeller. And it was great. We played there quite a bit, over three years. It was a great apprenticeship. It made us better bands, better musicians. We were a very tight band. And that was a great help for us.

PCC:
Having that rivalry with The Beatles, as well as the camaraderie, did that spur you to greater heights, as well?

GERRY:
Of course. Of course it did, yeah. We wanted to be better than them and I wanted to write better songs than them. But offstage, we were the best of mates. Onstage, very much rivals.

PCC:
Is it true that you were instrumental in getting the Cavern to try rock ‘n’ roll performers at the club?

GERRY:
Yes, we did. Paul McCartney and I did, because it was a trad, traditional jazz place. And the guy wouldn’t have us on. So we kept pestering him and then, one day, he said, ‘Okay, you can have a lunchtime each. You can have a lunchtime session.’ So we did. And he saw the response of the crowd and changed it from traditional jazz to rhythm & blues/rock ‘n’ roll.

PCC:
It was such a ratty, sweaty little place. Were you surprised that it became such a landmark?

GERRY:
It only became a landmark, because Brian Epstein saw The Beatles there, basically. If he had seen them at Litherland Town Hall, then Litherland Town Hall would have been the place [Laughs]. Any one of them could have been famous. It was just that this was where Brian saw The Beatles and realized he wanted to be a manager.

PCC:
And George Martin, what was his unique touch?

GERRY:
George let you do your own thing, basically. And he would add on strings and stuff like that. But he would let you go on and sing what you wanted to sing, how you wanted to do it. And I think that was his beauty. He let you get on with it.

PCC:
When the first of your records was on the radio and then shot to number one, what went through your head?

GERRY:
Bloody hell! [Laughs] It was amazing. Just amazing.

PCC:
Was that beyond the wildest dreams?

GERRY:
Yes! God! Certainly. And our second record went number one and our third went number one and we thought, ‘Bloody hell, this is ridiculous, because we’re just four fellas from Liverpool.’ [Laughs]

PCC:
And when the fourth single, your own song, ‘I Like It,’ only went to number two, was that actually disappointing?

GERRY:
I don’t know. I think it was, because I’d written it. ‘What? We only made it to number two?’ [Laughs]. We would have liked another number one.

PCC:
Were you into the mod fashions and hair styles?

GERRY:
I didn’t really change my style at all. The Beatles did. They got mustaches and beards and the Hare Krishna gear and the Mahareshi yogi, which I didn’t get into. Let them do what they want. It didn’t matter.

PCC:
And they got into the pot and acid, how did you avoid all that?

GERRY:
I was married with kids. And I had a great time with my family. So I didn’t get involved in all that gear. And my family kept my feet on the ground.

PCC:
‘You’ll Never Walk Alone,’ that was a song you’d had in the back of your mind for a long time?

GERRY:
Yeah, we’d been playing it at our shows, before we made records. And our first LP, I wanted to put it on it. And then we needed a third single. And that’s the one I chose. Brian Epstein and George were a bit apprehensive. They said, ‘Well, be it on your head’ and when it went to number one, I could ring them up and go, ‘Nah-nah-nah-nah-nah.’ I was very pleased. It was great. And the Liverpool soccer team’s supporters started singing it and from then, it’s become a legend song for the football, which is great.

PCC:
It must have wonderful feeling when it became a huge hit again in the ‘80s.

GERRY:
It was, but that was for charity. Like ‘Ferry Cross The Mersey’ was another one that we did for a charity. But songs like ‘Ferry Cross The Mersey’ that I wrote, I never thought that would have the worldwide effect. Now wherever I go, whether it be Hong Kong, Singapore, China, the States, Canada, Australia, people all say, ‘Play ‘Ferry Cross The Mersey.’ And that’s great. I’m very proud of that.

PCC:
When you first heard ‘You’ll Never Walk Alone’ in the movie ‘Carousel,’ what grabbed you?

GERRY:
I just liked the lyrics. Liked the music. I liked the way it builds up at the end. I just liked the song instantly. So I decided to do it. I knew other people had done it, but I just wanted to record it.

PCC:
And when George Martin tried to discourage you from releasing it as a single, you were confident enough to override that?

GERRY:
I pretended I was [Laughs].

PCC:
You’ve written a lot of great songs. Did songwriting come naturally to you?

GERRY:
I started writing in Hamburg. I’d hear a sentence and think, ‘Oh, that could be a title for a song.’ Or somebody would hum a bit of a tune, I’d think, ‘Oh, that’s nice.’ Different ways. I’d sit at a piano and play things and think, ‘Oh, that’s nice.’ I don’t know how you write songs. It’s just there, basically. And then you try to utilize it. I mean, we don’t write hits all the time, which is a pity, but I still enjoy writing.

PCC:
So you’re still writing and recording?

GERRY:
Oh, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Still writing and recording. But recording is a bit hard at the moment, because we’re touring. And when I’m not touring, I’m in my home in Spain, getting a bit of sunshine. I’m getting lazy in my old age.

PCC:
Once you’d had huge success in the U.K., did you assume you would be able to repeat that in the U.S.?

GERRY:
Oh, no. That was a great surprise. We didn’t know. We’d never even considered it, about being a hit in the States. So when it happened, it was fantastic. The tours were fabulous. The crowds were great. The American people, I love. They’re great people. So that was a lovely surprise.

PCC:
Ed Sullivan, were you aware how significant he was as an American television presenter?

GERRY:
No. Didn’t know him, ‘til we got there. Then he was telling me how good he was. [Chuckles]. Then he tells me we’re going to be watched by 60 million people. I said, ‘Why didn’t you tell me after the show?! Not before we go on! Geez!’ Made me panic a bit, I’ll tell ya. Frightened the life out of me, but we did it.

PCC:
And American radio ,that must have seemed totally different from BBC. Was that a revelation?

GERRY:
Opened our eyes a bit, yeah. We’d never experienced anything like that, being on the radio stations with the DJs with these wild personalities. And it was crazy. That was fantastic. Really was. And they could make or break you.

PCC:
‘Don’t Let The Sun Catch You Crying’ you wrote for your girlfiend, soon-to-be wife. Did that come to you quickly?

GERRY:
Yeah, pretty quickly. That was easy to write, because I was thinking about her. It’s always easier when you’ve got something to think about.

PCC:
You did some of those all-star bus tours in the States, didn’t you? Was that an adventure?

GERRY:
Just thank God, we were young, ‘cause it’s bloody murder. Lots of traveling. But yeah, we made good friends on the coaches, the other acts, the other artists. We became mates. And that was great. But Jesus, some of the journeys were horrendous. But we were young and we enjoyed it.

PCC:
What about all the screaming and the mania? Did you take that in stride? Did you find it amusing? Was it disconcerting?

GERRY:
It used to scare the life out of you when you first walked on stage. And then you’d sing your head off. Well, you didn’t have to sing, just let them scream, ‘cause you couldn’t hear the singing, anyway [Laughs]. But it was great. It was great fun.

PCC:
Did you have to deal with kids trying to rip your clothes off?

GERRY:
Yeah. Sure. But it didn’t matter. They were paying for them, so I didn’t mind... as long as I had a pair of underpants on.

PCC:
And what about kids smuggling themselves into your hotel rooms?

GERRY:
I’m married. I can’t say no more. [Chuckles].

PCC:
I love that bit in the documentary where you talk about the male American fan who thanked you for proving that musicians who weren’t terribly handsome could still succeed.

GERRY:
Yeah, ugly guys could make it. [Laughs] That was the best thing I’d ever heard. I thanked him. That’s my legacy. I’m proud of that.

PCC:
But do you think that, actually, it’s been part of your appeal, that you seem like one of the lads, very approachable?

GERRY:
Yeah, I think so. They liked that we would speak to them and there was no big star thing. We’d have a chat and a laugh with the kids and everything, which is the way I think it should be. That’s another great part of the business.

PCC:
But once you’d had this incredible worldwide fame, how were you able to remain down to Earth?

GERRY:
Family. Getting back to my family. Every time I finished a tour, I came straight back home. And that keeps your feet on the ground. My mum and dad. My wife and kids. Keeps your feet on the ground.

PCC:
How did you hear that you hand landed a film? Did Brian tell you?

GERRY:
Yes, Brian said, ‘The Beatles have done ‘A Hard Day’s Night’ and I think we’ve got one for you. And a guy called Tony Warren, who was the original writer for ‘Coronation Street,’ which is a big soap opera, rang up and said, ‘I’ve got a book for Gerry, just written, called ‘Ferry Cross The Mersey.’ Would he do it?’ I said, ‘Of course.’ We didn’t have videos in those days. So you’d just put as many songs as you could, add a little fun and send it all over the world. And that’s what it was.

PCC:
And Cilla Black is in it, as well.

GERRY:
Yes, Cilla used to be the cloakroom girl at the Cavern.

PCC:
And the song, did you get the title and immediately a melody came to you?

GERRY:
No, ‘Ferry’ took me quite a while. Most of the songs I wrote were easy. ‘Ferry’ took me a bit of time to try and get the feeling and the movement of the ferry. And why should it cross the Mersey? Then one day I heard this in my head [sings the intro to the song]. And I thought, ‘Ah, that’s the sound.’ So I stopped my car. Rung my mum. Told her to put my tape on. Dashed home. And did the song in like five minutes. I’d been trying to write it for a couple of months. [Chuckles]

PCC:
When something like that happens, do you figure it’s coming from somewhere else, that it’s being channeled through you?

GERRY:
I don’t know. When that happens, it’s so easy, you think, ‘Why can’t I do that every day?’ But you can’t.

PCC:
It’s so wonderful to hear ‘Ferry Cross The Mersey’ being played on the Liverpool ferries. That must be especially satisfying for you.

GERRY:
I go on the ferry a lot. People sometimes come over and want to interview me on the ferry. I love every time they play it. It’s lovely.

PCC:
You’ve always made Liverpool your home. Was there ever a temptation to move?

GERRY:
Merseyside. No, never. I like Liverpool. I like the people. I like the soccer team. And the friends. I like all my friends.

PCC:
As the sixties moved along, into psychedelia and album rock, did you become disenchanted?

GERRY:
I didn’t bother with it. I just kept doing my concerts. And then I went to the West End of London, into comedy theatre, doing ‘Pull Both Ends’ and ‘Charlie Girl.’ And I was there for five years. And then I decided, ‘Right, I want to get back on the road now.’ So I then went back on the road with new bands. And I’ve played ever since. I still love it.

PCC:
At the height of the craze, in the mid-sixties, did you have any concerns about how long it would last?

GERRY:
Yeah, you think maybe five years. If you last five years, you’re laughing. And here’s me, 40 million years later, still singing [Chuckles].

PCC:
The original Pacemakers breaking up, was it just a matter of wanting to try these other things?

GERRY:
Yes. We’d done enough. And I wanted to get into the West End, in London. And the boys had basically had enough of it.

PCC:
And Brian, early on, had he prepared you for the possibility of moving into other areas of performing?

GERRY:
Oh yeah, Brian wanted me to do the West End. He always said to me, ‘Gerry, you’d be good in musicals.’ And it’s a pity he wasn’t alive when I did it.

PCC:
Was that an easy transition for you or was it a big challenge?

GERRY:
Well, it was easy, because I had two great people, Dame Anna Neagle and Derek Nimmo - great actress and actor - and a great cast [in ‘Charlie Girl’], who helped me with everything. I was very lucky. They helped me a great deal and they were wonderful people. Sadly, they’re both dead now. But they were great.

PCC:
And then you did some children’s TV shows, as well?

GERRY:
I did lots of telly, yeah. l liked working and I got an offer to do children’s telly and I loved it. I did that for nearly nine years. It was great.

PCC:
Having a triple heart bypass operation in 2003, was that a time for reflection?

GERRY:
No, I was too busy. All I thought about was getting back on stage. I had shows to do, places to go [Chuckles].

PCC:
You’ve been honored for your charity work. Is that important to you, giving back to the community?

GERRY:
Yes, it is, very important. That’s the whole point of doing it. The Queen gave me an M.B.E., which is very, very nice. I also got the Freedom Medal of Liverpool last year. That was very, very nice. And I’m getting a doctorate from University of John Moores in Liverpool this year. That’s another lovely, lovely gift. It’s nice to know that you’re appreciated, truthfully.

PCC:
You’ve always seemed to have so much fun on stage. Is that still the case?

GERRY:
Yes. Apart from my family, that’s my life. I get more joy doing that than anything else.

PCC:
What makes it so rewarding for you?

GERRY:
The audiences. The response of the audience, seeing them smiling and clapping and singing along and enjoying themselves. That’s what it’s all about.

PCC:
Why do you think people are still so fascinated by the sixties and the Liverpool scene in particular?

GERRY:
I think it takes them back to a good time in their life. And the young kids who like it, it gives them a new outlook on the music.

PCC:
What about your legacy? How would you like to be remembered?

GERRY:
I think just as a guy who tried to help everybody, tried to play the right kind of music and do whatever I could with my life for people.