JOHN DENVER: HIS SONGS AND ACTIVISM - TIMELESS By Paul Freeman [1992 Interview] John Denver is revered for his golden voice and a gift for writing such unforgettable songs as “Rocky Mountain High” and “Leaving On A Jet Plane.” But equally important in his legacy - Denver’s fervent activism for environmental and humanitarian causes. He co-founded the Windstar Foundation, a non-profit wildlife preservation agency. Having founded the World Hunger Project in 1977, Denver was appointed by President Jimmy Carter to the commission on World and Domestic Hunger. Denver was a member in such organizations as the National Space Institute, the Cousteau Society, Friends of the Earth, Save the Children Foundation, and the European Space Agency. In 1987, President Ronald Reagan presented Denver with the Presidential World Without Hunger Award. And, in 1993, Denver received the Albert Schweitzer Music Award for humanitarian efforts. Denver perished in 1997, when the two-seat, light plane he was piloting crashed, due to engine failure, near Monterey Bay, California. He was 53. We spoke with Denver in 1992, shortly after he had joined Al Gore and the Dalai Lama in speaking at the Earth Summit in Rio. POP CULTURE CLASSICS: So you recently returned from Rio? JOHN DENVER: I was there and then I’ve been on tour in Australia. I got back the night before last. My brain’s not working yet. [Laughs] PCC: From what you experienced at Rio, did that make you more optimistic? Less optimistic? DENVER: Well, I’m optimistic in that it happened in the first place. I think people should understand that this was the first time in history that so many world leaders have gotten together about a single issue. I think that they should garner some sense of the importance of it, by the fact that there was more press at this event than at any other event in history - by double. And so, what was being addressed there, in regards to the environment, really has to do with all of our lives and with the future and with the kind of world that we’re going to leave our children. And not everything that we hoped for was accomplished, but a great journey has begun, in a very significant sense. And the journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. So perhaps we’re on our way to a new way of living with each other and in relating to the planet which we inhabit. PCC: Were you surprised by the official American response? DENVER: No, as a matter of fact, I wasn’t surprised. I was very disappointed, but it was kind of what I expected from our so-called “environmental President” [George Bush, the First] I was shocked by his response to the memo from William Riley, that he’s not following some sense of direction from his environmental spokesman in that regard. And I think it really demonstrated a dismal lack of leadership in our country, especially in the area of environment... and economics. PCC: So does this mean we have to take more action individually, rather than relying on the government to make changes? DENVER: Well, absolutely, we have to. And I don’t think we can ever depend on governments to do the job for us. At best, they’re going to do what we want them to do. And we have to demonstrate that very significantly and I hope one of the ways that we do that is in the coming election. I think we need a different administration in the White House. PCC: Anyone in particular in mind there? DENVER: No. I think it’s very interesting. I’m excited about the possibility of Clinton taking on Al Gore as a running mate. I think that would be very good, environmentally speaking. I’m very interested in Ross Perot’s possible candidacy. I think that an independent candidate, making a credible run for the office, could really shake up the two-party system, which I think would be valuable. And I think part of what Mr. Perot says about getting people to be involved and participate, after the election, the way they do during the campaign process, could be of inestimable value to our country at this time. But I don’t know where he stands on the environment and I had the chance to meet him, as a matter of fact, on my way to Australia, and said I’d like to sit and talk with him sometime about the environment. And he invited me to do that. So I look forward to that meeting. PCC: Do you think that, generally, the American public is aware of how imminent the dangers are? DENVER: No, I don't think so. And I don’t think that they have a real understanding of our place in the world as the consumers that we are. And some recognition of that has to come about and we have to take this whole issue of the environment a lot more seriously. For me, all the different issues I’ve gotten involved in over the years have all been environmental issues. I think education is an environmental issue. I think economics is an environmental issue. The Germans, more than anyone else, I think, have stood up and said that they see the environment as one of the greatest economic opportunities of the century. And I think that’s true. And it’s very frustrating that our country doesn’t recognize that. PCC: How and when did you first become aware of the gravity of the situation? DENVER: Well, I’ve been pretty outspoken about the environment for about 25 years now and it came out of, I suppose, my childhood. I was an Air Force brat and moved around a lot. I was very, very shy. And my best friends were my guitar and the outdoors. So it got to be a pretty natural thing for me to use images from nature, when I started trying to express myself in song. And, around that, as an inquisitive person, and hopefully halfway intelligent, you start to see things going on, you see the direction we’re going and what the most likely outcome of that is. And for me, it gave me great concerns about what was going on in our country - our energy policy, the use of resources, our taking for granted so much of what the environment has to offer. It’s just sort of always been there for me. And the things that I was thinking about, back in 1965, ‘67 are the kinds of things that have come about. PCC: We have been hearing for years what’s going on with the environment. What do you think are the best ways to awaken people to the urgency of the problem? DENVER: Well, I don’t know what the best way is. I’ll tell you this - they’re going to wake up sooner or later, because it’s going to keep happening. And these problems are not going to go away. So I think it’s going to show up in the grocery store. It’s going to show up in business. It’s going to show up in the cost of gasoline, the fuels that we use in warming. I think it’s going to show up in the quality of our lives and our relationships with other countries. It’s just going to show up everywhere. So the thing is, what does it take to learn? And then, more importantly, what does it take to get people to act on what they have learned? PCC: I saw Olivia Newton-John talking about how she had just seen school children in Australia who now had to wear hats for protection, at recess, or they wouldn’t be allowed outside. Do you think maybe once everyday living has to be altered, that’s what it’s going to take to get Americans to become truly concerned? DENVER: Well, I think so. I look back on the gasoline crisis a few years ago, when automobiles were lined up at gas stations in California and all of a sudden, we got worried about gasoline. Europeans had been paying two and three dollars for a gallon of gas, for a long, long time. And then, all of a sudden, that was all it took, when it started affecting our pocketbooks, that’s what it took for the American people to provide some leadership to the automotive industry and get them to build more efficient cars. Unfortunately, a lot of that has fallen by the wayside over recent years, because that particular problem hasn’t stayed with us. But I think, more than anything, when it starts to affect people’s pocketbooks, that’s when it gets them. Aside from that, what you described, what Olivia was talking about, when it starts showing up in aspects of your daily life, then it’s something that you can no longer take for granted. And perhaps then, we’ll start doing things that we should have been doing for a long time now. And hopefully it won’t be too late. The people that I listen to, the scientists who I talk with, who come to here to the Aspen Global Change Institute or that I meet around the world, say that, in this decade, or maybe the next two decades, we’re going to determine whether or not the Earth remains inhabitable by higher life forms, such as human beings. And I think that is specifically what we’re dealing with. And people don’t get it. And it’s hard to get. You know, I’m sitting here today, in Aspen, and it’s an absolutely glorious day. You look out at mountains that have been here almost as long as the stars in the sky and it’s hard to see how we could have such an incredible impact on nature. But we are having that impact. And it’s showing up in a lot of different ways. And we’ve got to recognize it and we have to start making some changes. PCC: The fact that people don’t get it - and there is such a clear logic to it - doesn’t that frustrate you? DENVER: Yes, it’s very frustrating. PCC: How do you deal with that? DENVER: [Laughs] You’ve got to keep going. You’ve got to keep talking about it, putting it out there, in whatever ways you can. PCC: What are the fundamental changes you hope to make through the Windstar Foundation? DENVER: Well, what Windstar is about is being a catalyst for responsible action. That’s on an individual level. We want to get people to make conscious choices and to do the things that each one of us can do. So many people out there say that the problems are so big, what difference can I possibly make? What can I do? And the thing to remind them is that you make a difference sometimes by what you don’t do, as well as by what you do. And you don't have to do anything. But if you do the things that you can do, where you live, and if I do the things that I can do over here, and the other people play their part, then all of us together are going to come up with what’s necessary to deal with these problems realistically. And anything less than that is going to be a shame. PCC: What sort of impact do you think music can have on heightening awareness? DENVER: Well, I think the arts always have been the precursor of real change in society. I think that part of the role of the artist, out of our ability to express ourselves, is that we take things that are going on, that everybody else is perhaps feeling or looking at, and we’re able to communicate it in a way that they can understand and they all of sudden say, “You know, that’s how I feel” or “That’s what I’ve been worrying about, too” or “That’s what I’d like to see happen.” And so, out of that, people start doing what they can do. And music, I think, more than any other art form, with the possible exception of the movies, but music is so much more accessible to everybody, we can both draw attention to the issues, by doing things like the Grateful Dead are doing and, where possible, through what the songs have to say, get people to hear. PCC: So, in your own concerts, how do you directly - or indirectly - try to convey the message? DENVER: Well, I think it’s been there for such a long time in all of my music that it’s a constant. And there are always new songs. I’ve got a song from my newest album called, ”Let This Be A Voice.” And it’s a song about the environment. And it says, “Let my voice be a voice for the ocean, for the rivers, for the desert, for children.” And my hope is, when people hear it, and say the words to themselves, it lets theirs, too, be a voice. And then, one of the things we’re doing at our concerts this year, with all the concessions that we sell, first of all, all the profits are always going to support the Windstar Foundation. And secondarily, for anything anybody buys this year, we’re planting a tree. And we hope to plant 10 million trees around the world, before the end of this decade. And at these concerts, too, people can buy little trees or buy some herbs or stuff and start their own little Earth Garden. In Australia, they started a program to plant 10 billion trees over the course of the next couple of decades. And they had packets at our concerts that people could buy for a dollar, to plant their own trees and the whole dollar went to the Australian Conservation Trust, the organization behind that particular plan in Australia. PCC: Having played all over the world, what have you seen in concrete terms in terms of the universality of music bringing people together? DENVER: Well, just my own experience - I have yet to go anywhere in the world and not be recognized, not run into somebody who’s singing “Country Roads” or “Annie’s Song” or who knows “Rocky Mountain High.” “Rocky Mountain High” is an autobiographical song about the Rocky Mountains, but it evidently has some meaning for people all over the world, as does “Annie’s Song,” as does a thing like “Country Roads.” And I think the emotions that are behind those songs are universal and the best expression of that is music and that’s why music has always been and always will be the universal language. PCC: Has the satisfaction you’ve gotten from music changed a lot over the years? Is it the same? What are the greatest rewards for you? DENVER: I think it’s only expanded, it’s only grown. It’s pleasing to me that I still have an audience all over the world, that I can do concerts everywhere, that people know my songs and can sing them with me, that there is an opportunity to involve myself, to participate in certain issues all over the world, that I’m asked always in interviews about the environment, about what’s happening with the Windstar Foundation, the Hunger Project, that I have the opportunity to speak with someone like Ross Perot about the environment, who’s potentially running for President. I’ll probably have the opportunity with Mr. Clinton also. And I have already talked with George Bush [chuckles] to very little avail. PCC: What about perspective on career, has that evolved? DENVER: Oh, I think it’s changed in that, part of why I continue to work so hard is to give voice to these other things. Whenever I go do a concert anyplace, anywhere in the world, there is a chance to do interviews. And more people will read the interview than will see the concert. And, inevitably, it’s talking about these things that are going on in the world. Around that, I think that my understanding of music and careers and society and life as a whole is that there are cycles in life. My kind of music - at one point, I was the biggest-selling record artist in the world - and to a large degree, I have disappeared from contemporary radio, at least with my newer material. They still play a lot of the old songs. I think it’s going to come back around. I don’t necessarily want to come back around to being the biggest-selling record artist in the world again. I would like to have more success with the newer stuff than I’m doing. I think I’m writing as well as I ever have and singing better than I ever have. And so I would enjoy that. And I would enjoy the other opportunities that it opens up - the opportunities to speak about these kinds of issues. I’d love to have the opportunity to do more film work, things like that. PCC: But even beyond the personal element, isn’t it disheartening to see the music scene go from where the emphasis was on the song itself, to where, now, it’s often more about the hype or the production or the theatricality? DENVER: Well, it’s not disheartening. It’s part of the cyclical nature and the evolution of music. And, as much as that has value - videos are a new art form, and it’s nice to see that as an expression of music - there are some things that are not so nice about it sometimes. But I think, it’s like the movies, you go so far, where it’s not the song anymore, as you say, it’s the performance and some of the music won’t stand up without the performance and all the stuff that goes along with it. I think that there’s always going to be an ear for someone who can sit down at the piano or with a guitar and sing for people and have that work, have that communicate. And I don’t think that there are very many people out there, in popular music today, who can do that. But it’s going to come back around. PCC: Any new music projects on the horizon for you? DENVER: Not right now. Golly, the last song I wrote was about six months ago. I’ve got a bunch of songs in the oven, so to speak, I’m just waiting for some time to be able to sit down and do them, to see if they come out or not. The major project that’s in the works is continuing what I did with “Earth Songs.” I’m trying to do a recapitulation of most of my work over the years, a volume of what’s called “Earth Songs,” all the songs I did about the environment or that relates to the environment, like “Calypso,” “Sunshine On My Shoulders,” “Eagle and the Hawk,” “Rocky Mountain High.” A lot of those songs were written over 20 years ago and I sing them differently now. I sing them better. So we’ve re-recorded the songs, using state-of-the-art technology, digital recording, mixing and mastering, and singing the way that I am today. We’ve done volume one of the “Earth Songs” and I think that there’s a whole other volume of songs that I’ve done about the environment. I want to do the same thing with my love songs. And the same thing with what I call, “the life songs” or “living songs,” songs like “Country Roads,” “Thanks God I’m a Country Boy” and “Poems, Prayers and Promises,” and “It’s About Time” - songs like that. PCC: Being very aware of the crisis with the environment and the finite nature of things, does that give you a sense of having to live each day to the fullest, racing the clock in some way? DENVER: Well, it’s not racing the clock, but I’ve always felt, this is not a rehearsal. This is kind of it. And I wrote in a song once, a song for my father, when he passed away, “The moment at hand is the only thing we really own - and best to make the best of it.” PCC: So what are the other things occupying you now, when you’re not working? Are you still flying? DENVER: Yeah, I love to fly. I love being outdoors. I’m trying to be a sailor. I’d love to sail around the world someday. I spend as much time as I can with my children. Zak and Anna Kate are 18 and 15 respectively. And Jesse Belle is three. I’m recently divorced. PCC: At one point, it looked like you were going to be the first civilian in space. Are you still working on getting aboard the space shuttle? DENVER: Oh, not really. I certainly wouldn’t pass it up, if the opportunity came. But I don’t know if have the energy to get that whole thing started again. PCC: Being a father, does bring the whole environmental issue home a little more urgently. DENVER: Well, it does to me. The things that I enjoy most with my children are things that we have learned to do outside - skiing, riding, scuba diving. My daughter just went on a trip with one of her classmates and some other people, down in the Galapagos Islands, to go scuba diving. And I remember taking her on her first dive, introducing her to diving. My son Zak and I went helicopter skiing this last January, in Canada, and had just an incredible, incredible week. And I remember the first day I took him skiing. And so, so much of this really brings home what I have always found enormous pleasure in and want to share with my children. And I want all children to be able enjoy these things that have meant so much in my life. I think it’s a big, big part of life. And without it, we’re not really, truly alive. Every time I hold my little baby, outside, we go outside and breathe the air here in Aspen, I’m so grateful - especially when I’ve just gotten off a plane - it’s different here. I always want to be able to do that. And I want to be able to do that with my grandchildren. I want to take my grandkids fishing and skiing. PCC: So does it bewilder you that all parents don’t recognize that and want to become active in the environmental arena? DENVER: I’m sure all parents feel the same way about that, when we have the chance to think about it. And thinking about it, putting all the pieces together, finding out what it all means and what our place is in it, is sometimes more difficult for some to understand than it is for others, I guess. PCC: What do you see as the most exciting prospects for the future? DENVER: Oh, I think the learning curve is going in a fairly vertical direction for all of us. I think there are enormous changes that have taken place in the world, real positive changes. And I think those are going to increase. And the major challenge that we face right now is really instilling in our young people, the vision of a future that is bright, with a better quality of life for all living things, that it’s still possible. And that we can make the world the way that we want it to be. We’re not necessarily stuck with it the way it is... and it ain’t so bad.