By Paul Freeman [September 2015 Interview]

Johnny Mathis possesses a singularly silky voice. But it’s not just the velvet vocal cords that are unique, it’s his remarkable career longevity.

Mathis was signed to Columbia Records 60 years ago. He reached number one in 1957 with “Chances Are” and repeated the achievement in 1978 with “Too Much, Too Little, Too Late,” a duet with Deniece Williams.

In 1935, Mathis was born in Gilmer, Texas, the fourth of seven children. The family soon moved to San Francisco. His father, who had natural musical abilities, encouraged young Johnny’s gifts and the lad sang at church, school and community events.

At 13, Mathis began studying with Bay Area voice teacher Connie Cox. He did odd jobs around her house to pay for his lessons.

A star athlete in high school and college, Mathis sang during a jam session at San Francisco’s famed jazz nightclub The Black Hawk. Impressed, the co-owner of the venue, Helen Noga, offered to manage him.

Mathis passed up an opportunity to participate in the 1956 Olympic trials, when Columbia Records beckoned. His first album, a jazz vocal collection, packed with standards, sold only moderately. But the label teamed him with prominent producer Mitch Miller and huge hits followed, including “It’s Not For Me To Say” and “The Twelfth of Never.”

Mathis played a piano player in the film “Lizzie” and sang the theme song of the movie “A Certain Smile.” He made a major impression on such TV programs as “The Ed Sullivan Show.”

His 1958 album “Johnny’s Greatest Hits” is considered to be the release that launched the whole phenomenon of greatest hits LPs. One of the most popular albums of all time, it stayed on the charts for an astounding 490 consecutive weeks.

In 1959, Mathis immortalized Erroll Garner’s tender tune, “Misty.” In 2003, the Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences presented Mathis with its Lifetime Achievement Award. He has had a hit in every decade of his career, most recently, joined by pianist/songwriter Jim Brickman, on 2013’s Grammy-nominated “Sending You A Little Christmas.” Still a very active touring performer, Mathis is in the planning stages of a new album.

On September 30, he will celebrate his 80th birthday. And to mark the occasion, five days earlier, Legacy Recordings and Columbia Records will release “Johnny Mathis: The Singles.” You can pre-order the comprehensive, four-disc set now. This marks the debut CD appearance of 31 of the 87 tracks. Featured is every Mathis recording that was first issued as a single. The gems include many non-LP and compilation-only tracks. This anthology is cause for celebration indeed.

One of his hit singles sums up the Johnny Mathis career - “Wonderful! Wonderful!”

POP CULTURE CLASSICS:
You’re coming up on the 60th anniversary of signing as a Columbia Records artist. That kind of relationship is unheard of in the music industry.

JOHNNY MATHIS:
[Chuckles] Yeah. I had no idea, when I began.

PCC:
The new singles set, so many of the tracks were previously unreleased on CD, is there a sense of rediscovery for you with some of the treasures included here?

MATHIS:
So many of them. I was looking at some stuff that I did with Jerry Fuller, for instance, a wonderful producer early in my career. And I came along so early, as far as recordings are concerned, even before they had what they call “producers.” Most of the advice and help that I got in the studio was from the arranger of the music, the orchestrator and just sort of intuition on my own part. And in the early days, of course, I had no idea how to do it. I had sung, but I had not made records. And there is a process of making records that’s very important to have a heads-up on.

PCC:
To the outside ear, so many of the tracks sound perfect. Do you listen to some and think of different ways you’d approach a line or a word, if you had could do it over again now?

MATHIS:
There’s one that I didn’t finish singing. I was just talking to someone about this project that they’re going to release and I listened to all of it and I kept waiting for me to sing the rest of the song… and I didn’t, because, so many times, I would go into the studio and I learned maybe two songs, but they wanted me to sing four. And I said, “What are the others?” And they would bring them out, the lead sheets. And, of course, I didn’t read music. So I guess I ran through it maybe a couple of times on the piano and I guessed most of the notes and fortunately, my instincts were right. I got most of the notes right over a period of years. But a lot of times, I sang the wrong note.

I remember Leonard Bernstein told me once, I recorded “Small World,” from the Broadway production, “Gypsy.” And Bernstein heard it. He was friends, of course, with Stephen Sondheim, who wrote “Gypsy.” And Bernstein said, “You know, you sang the wrong melody on the second chorus.” [Laughs] And I said, “I know! And I didn’t get a chance… “ He said, “No, no, no, I liked it better!” And of course, he was being nice. But yeah, I made a lot of mistakes over the years. I sang people’s songs a little differently. But I always did it earnestly, I guess.

PCC:
From your perspective what are the key ingredients for a single, if it’s going to make a lasting impression on the listener?

MATHIS:
You know, if I knew or if anybody knew, we’d all have lots of hit records. But we certainly don’t know. The general public, their listening habits are very varied. Of course, what one wants to do is to showcase their abilities. And our abilities sometimes don’t match up to some of the music that we’re asked to perform. So we don’t do certain aspects of it very well. But we do something else very well. Otherwise we wouldn’t get noticed.

But I have no idea - and most people don’t know - what makes a hit record. A lot of the producers whom I’ve come in contact with… and a producer is the guy who pulls everything together. He gets you into the studio and he’s a rah-rah guy - “Yeah, yeah, it’s gonna be great!” He says, “Perfect. It’s gonna be wonderful.” And, of course, they don’t know either [laughs]. But the only thing that I can say is that you take advantage of your gifts as a singer or a musician and do what you can. And some people are very lucky and they have hit records. But that doesn’t necessarily mean they have a long career. And there are other people who don’t have a lot of hit records and they have careers that last into their eighties.

PCC:
To what do you attribute the timelessness of these songs and of your career?

MATHIS:
I’ve been lucky to be able to sing for a long period of time. I’ve been able to do concert work and maintain my voice, so that I can sing, more or less, whatever people want to hear. And usually it changes every 10 years or so. I enjoy singing. I enjoy the physical aspects of singing.

I studied as a kid, voice, with a wonderful teacher. And she told me that I’d probably want to sing the rest of my life, so that was her big answer to any questions that I had as a kid, trying to sing these notes that she was trying to get out of me - “Now, come on, you’re going to utilize this. You’re going to need this, when you’re 40 years old or you’re 50 years old.” And, of course, I was 19 years old at the time, thinking, “I’ll never be that old!” [Laughs]

PCC:
And your father helped guide you in that direction, as well?

MATHIS:
My Dad was a wonderful singer. Of course, he had seven kids, so nobody heard him except the family. But he was right in my corner all the time. We were Mutt and Jeff. He’d say, “I talked to someone and they are willing to give you lessons.” And we went through a lot of people who were kind of - I don’t know - they weren’t voice teachers, that’s for sure. I never knew quite what they were. But they would play a record and you would sing along with it. And the music would always overshadow whatever you were singing. So you sounded pretty good.

But Dad, he was my best pal. And he’s the reason that I’m doing what I do today. He was there. And not as an ogre or anything like that. He was just there to help me in any way that he could.

PCC:
Do you think your life and career might have been very different, if the family had stayed in Texas, instead of moving to San Francisco?

MATHIS:
Well, the only other thing that I had any success in was high-jumping [laughs], in high school and college. My big claim to fame was that I broke the record of Bill Russell, the great basketball player, his high jump record, in Nevada, at one of the venues. Bill and I became friends at an early age and we sort of did the tour of track meets for two or three years while we were in college. And that was about the only other talent that I had. I wasn’t particularly a great student. But I was interested in it enough to get decent grades. But singing was always something that I did, whether I would become successful or not, I just loved the physical aspect of singing. And, of course, most of the people that I really enjoy being around like to sing… whether they can or not [laughs].

PCC:
Who were the recording artists who most influenced and inspired you?

MATHIS:
I was mostly influenced by jazzers, because I grew up in San Francisco and my brothers and sisters took me to the jazz clubs. In fact, my business manager became my business manager, because she owned one of the most famous jazz clubs in San Francisco. And I listened, from the time I was about 12 years old, to Oscar Peterson, Ray Brown. Singing-wise - Nat “King” Cole, Ella Fitzgerald, Sarah Vaughan, Lena Horne. Those were the people that come to mind and, in fact, had a great influence right from the beginning in what I sang and how I sang it.

It took me a few years before I stopped copying the phrasing and copying the tone qualities and sort of let it come out naturally for me, because I felt, if I emulated them, maybe that was going to be what people wanted to hear. But in fact, it took me quite a while to get accustomed to hearing my voice played back on records, because my voice hadn’t matured yet [laughs]. I sounded a little bit like a girl.

PCC:
But gradually you came to realize that you had something special and unique, in terms of the vocal instrument?

MATHIS:
Well, sometimes uniqueness can make you feel awkward. And that was the case with me. I always felt, well, early on, of course, with my recordings, a little awkward. Most of the men who recorded in my era were older than me and their voiced had matured. I’m thinking of the people like Nat “King” Cole, Billy Eckstine, some of the other singers. Tony Bennett was someone that I listened to. And their voices had matured already. Mine hadn’t. So I was a little hesitant.

PCC:
So what was it like later on, when every impressionist was imitating your voice?

MATHIS:
Oh, I found it so flattering. But they did the obvious - John Byner, that was one - they would do the very obvious stuff, the very thing I hated about my voice [laughs]. So I was flattered, but I said, “Oh, they didn’t do it right.”

There was a guy who sounded really like me. And I just think he sang that way. And that was Adam Wade, I think is his name. And he sang very well. And he sounded very much like me. And I thought, “Wow! Sounds like me! It really sounds like me.” And I finally got a chance to meet him and it was in one of his venues, where he was singing. And he called me up on stage. And I said, “Well, let’s sing something and see if we do sound alike.” And of course, we didn’t. But if you hear it without the other person, it did sound exactly like me. But the other guys, they kind of did it for shock effect, I think, especially John Byner.

PCC:
What impact did Mitch Miller have on your style?

MATHIS:
Mitch… [laughs] kind of ran me out of the studio. I had it up to here with him. He was wonderful for me in the beginning, but his choice of songs was really, really very juvenile-sounding. And I was right in the midst of listening to all these wonderful songs from Broadway, from “West Side Story” and “My Fair Lady,” and I certainly didn’t like the little ditties that he was proposing me to sing.

I think the thing that got his attention was the television show that he instigated and became a big success with [“Sing-Along With Mitch”] and he was so busy with that, that he had no more time to come into the studio with me or Rosemary Clooney or Tony Bennett. And they hated him. I mean, they hated him. I was a kid. I said, “I’ll put up with anybody, if I get results.” But, yeah, Mitch sort of ran his time out and became a big star on television.

PCC:
Becoming kind of the epitome of romantic pop, was that a role you welcomed?

MATHIS:
I always kind of shied away from that. You know, it didn’t sound very masculine, when people said, “Well, you’re a romantic singer.” I certainly never thought of myself that way. It’s just that everything I sing sounds like that. And there’s not much you can do about that [laughs].

PCC:
Was it a great thrill hearing yourself on the radio for the first time?

MATHIS:
It was. I remember, I was in a taxi cab. Of course, I’d heard myself reproduced. My voice teacher had a little thing which made her own records. And everybody sounded like Mickey Mouse, including me. So I knew that that wasn’t the reality of my voice. But the first time I heard it on the radio, I was in a taxi cab, going someplace in New York. And I had recorded my music six months before. And I’d never heard it reproduced. And I almost made the taxi driver have an accident [laughs], when it came over radio. “That’s me! That’s me!”

PCC:
And having your first number one with “Chances Are,” that had to be another amazing moment.

MATHIS:
It was the biggest thrill and the biggest kind of thing that made me want to continue to sing or try to sing well, because I knew that anything that I did from then on was going to be heard by a lot of people. And, of course, I have mentioned that I grew up listening to all of these great jazz singers. And, in fact, after a few years of my recording, I came back and in certain situations, I met these people who I admired so much, people like Ella Fitzgerald, Nat “King” Cole. They said, “Hey, Johnny! I remember you at The Black Hawk! Yeah, congratulations!” And in fact, Nat Cole sang one of my songs on that lovely 30-minute television program that he had. And who else that I was just amazed…? Bing Crosby sang my song. I thought I’d died and gone to heaven.

PCC:
When you were seeing these great artists in their senior years, still performing, were you thinking, “I hope I can do that, when I reach their age?”

MATHIS:
Oh, gosh, you know, when you’re as young as I was, I always thought that the mature voices were the ultimate. I thought that anybody in their twenties was just on their way to something better. I had a wonderful teacher. I started with her when I was 13. And I worked with her through the voice change, the little girl voice that I had, when I was 13, and to the masculine voice that I started having at about 16 or 17. One day I’d come in and I’d sound like a little girl and the next day I sounded like a man. And it was frustrating for me. But she guided me through that process.

So I’ve been listening to my voice all these years in so many capacities that I realized early on that I was going to want to sing all my life. And I think the most important thing that she imparted to me was the fact - you’re going to want to sing all your life, so make sure you take care of your voice.

PCC:
Hitting number one again, 21 years after “Chance Are,” with the “Too Much, Too Little, Too Late: duet - was that a different kind of satisfaction, having demonstrated that kind of longevity? That was have been gratifying.

MATHIS:
The most gratifying thing that I do as a singer is when other singers want to sing with me. I’ve sung with the most fabulous singers in the world - from Ray Charles to Lena Horne. I haven’t sung with Ella. And I haven’t sung with Nat. But I’m trying to find a way to do that. My goodness, I’ve sung with Beverly Sills. And to sing in tandem with other singers… and I’ve recorded with Gladys Knight and Dionne Warwick and even Larry Gatlin. So many gifted people. And that to me is the biggest, biggest kick in the world. And nothing else comes close. I love singing and doing concerts now, because I’m much more comfortable singing in concerts, but singing in tandem with other singers is the cat’s meow.

PCC:
Is there one song in particular, of all those you’ve recorded, that has a deep, personal meaning to you?

MATHIS:
I sang one of Larry Gatlin’s compositions called “Try to Win a Friend.” My father was a big fan of country music. He grew up in Texas. And I didn’t know whether I could get the nuances. And that really surprised me and it gave me a great deal of satisfaction to be able to sing his song and get the reaction that I did from him as a composer. He just loved it. He thought it was the cat’s meow.

I also sang a couple of songs by other composers - Thom Bell comes to mind. I did an album with him. I sang one of his songs and he said, “Finally, I got it sung the way I thought it should be.” Things like that give me a great deal of satisfaction.

PCC:
“Misty” is a song you certainly took to another level. When you first heard that beautiful melody, did it seem magical to you?

MATHIS:
When I was 13, 14, my Dad used to take me to The Black Hawk, the jazz club in San Francisco. And Errol Garner played there quite a lot. And he played this composition that was just beautiful. Everybody loved it. And he’d play it maybe a couple of times during his 40-minute set. There were no words… at least I didn’t hear any. And later on, I heard it, Sarah Vaughan had done a recording of “Misty” in Paris for Quincy Jones. And I said, “Wow!’ What a great song! I remember hearing Errol Garner play that. Finally there’s a lyric. A Johnny Burke lyric.”

And I did a recording session and I was supposed to record “Misty,” but the time had run out. There was no time left. And Martha Glaser, who was Erroll Garner’s business manager, was at the session, listening. And she was very disappointed that they were not going to let me sing it. And I said, “Well, let me sing it once, just once.” I had no clout with Columbia, because I was kind of a newcomer on the block. I begged them to let me run through it once. And once I did it, they liked it. And they said, “Well, sing it again.” And evidently I sang it a couple of times. And thank goodness they did let me do it again, because it’s been such a big part of my career. And I’m forever grateful that they let me pursue that song on my recording.

PCC:
With all the success at a young age, was it difficult to handle at any point?

MATHIS:
You know, I’m a child of my Dad. My Dad was pretty low-key. He said, “Every little step that you take is being watched” [laughs]. Of course, I thought everybody was watching me, even when I was sleeping. So I’ve always minded my p’s and q’s about the fact that I’m a public figure - Whoever dreamed that I would be and people would care what I did? I used to pooh-pooh that and say, “Nobody cares what I do.” But, in fact, they do. And I found out that being in the spotlight has many, many rewards. But there are also shortcomings, things that nobody should want to go through, because it’s something that you have to be passionate about what you’re doing, to do it under all kinds of circumstances.

I didn’t sign up to do certain things, but certain things come with the fact that you do what you do. And as a kid, I was a little hesitant about certain things. I wanted to sing and I wanted to do it the way I thought it should be done. And a lot of times, I was asked to do things that I didn’t want to do. But I did them, because I found out that give-and-take is a part of a lot of what we do in the business aspect of it. But it has nothing to do, of course, with the quality of the music. So I had to separate the two. And you mature. And you learn to handle it. And I’m very grateful to be in my 80th year this year and still be doing what I love.

PCC:
Yes, congratulations on the big birthday coming up. Is it a time for contemplation? Do you reflect on all you’ve accomplished over the years?

MATHIS:
The only thing that I think about is that, when I was a kid, I heard the great jazz pianist that everybody revered, especially Oscar Peterson - Art Tatum. He was 80 years old. He was blind. He had been blind all his life, I think. And he was absolutely brilliant… at 80. Also I heard Pablo Casals play, when he was 80. The only thing that bothered me was I had a long talk with Beverly Sills and before her, I talked to Bob Merrill, Robert Merrill, about the voice. And they had quit singing at a certain age. Well, not so much Bob [laughs]. He was kind of a ham, whether he sounded good or not.

But Beverly, I did a program with her on “The Dinah Shore Show.” Dinah Shore had a television show and I met Beverly. And we became really great pals. She loved my singing. I was over the moon. I couldn’t believe it, that she would know who I was. But we sang a duet on the show and she told me that she, of course, as a classical singer, you have to sing all the notes. You can’t do what I do and sing the ones that I can and the ones I can’t, I fake… or make up some other ones. But that was the sad part, that she said she didn’t like the way her voice sounded anymore, because she was required to sing so much and had such physical force. And that’s sad. And I’m just so grateful, at this point in my life, that I don’t have to physically put myself through what some of the opera singers had to do, that I can sing softly or I can sing songs that don’t require such pyrotechnics and still have a career.

PCC:
And still have such an emotional effect on the audience.

MATHIS:
Yes, absolutely. Sometimes I think they like my singing better now [laughs] with the restraint that I use.

PCC:
And you’re appealing to multiple generations now.

MATHIS:
Yeah, a lot of the young people come to the concerts. They’re wide-eyed. They can’t believe it - “Where have you been!?” [Laughs] They feel comfortable. They hear different kinds of music than they’re accustomed to hearing on the radio. And I’m amazed that some of them come back and back to the concerts.

Visit www.johnnymathis.com.