By Paul Freeman [August 2016 Interview]

Like most child stars, Margaret O’Brien was adorable. However, she was, and is, so much more.

Even in her earliest performances, O’Brien displayed remarkable talent. She brought authenticity to each moment on screen. And she could melt the coldest hearts, as she stared up with those astonishingly luminous eyes.

Born Angela Maxine O’Brien in 1937, she came from a show business family. Her father, Lawrence O’Brien, was an Irish-American circus performer who died before she was born. Her mother was renowned flamenco dancer Gladys Flores.

O’Brien began modeling at age three and, at four, made a brief appearance in Busby Berkeley’s “Babes on Broadway.” After filming 1942’s “Journey for Margaret,” she took the character’s first name as her own.

With a photographic memory and a serious-minded dedication to honing her craft, the youngster earned major stardom. The moviegoing public quickly came to adore her.

Her films include “Lost Angel,” “The Canterville Ghost,” “Our Vines Have Tender Grapes,” “Bad Bascomb,” “Three Wise Fools,” “The Unfinished Dance,” “Little Women” and “The Secret Garden.”

For her classic performance as Tootie in “Meet Me in St. Louis,” she was given a Juvenile Academy Award as outstanding child actress. That Oscar was stolen by a maid. Missing for many years, it turned up at an L.A. flea market and returned to Ms. O’Brien.

O’Brien, unlike so many other child stars, was able to make the transition to adolescent and then adult roles. She focused on stage and television. Her notable TV appearances include anthologies such as “Robert Montgomery Presents,” “The U.S. Steel Hour” and two “Playhouse 90” episodes (one with Dame Judith Anderson, Tony Randall and Fay Wray, the other with Jack Lemmon), as well iconic series - “Rawhide,” “Perry Mason,” “Wagon Train,” “Dr. Kildare” and “Combat!”

She has been married to businessman Roy Thorsen since 1974. They have a daughter, Mara.

O’Brien is one of more than 50 former child stars currently being celebrated by The Hollywood Museum (www.TheHollywoodMuseum.com] in the Historic Max Factor Building. In the impressive “Child Stars - Then and Now” exhibit, on display through December, the historic items on display include O’Brien’s special Oscar, Darla Hood’s Little Rascals costumes, Judy Garland’s “Wizard of Oz” ruby slippers, Shirley Temple’s “Curly Top” outfit, Roddy McDowell’s “Lassie Come Home” costume, Morgan Brittany’s Baby June slippers from “Gypsy” and Darby Hinton’s rifle and coonskin cap from the “Daniel Boone” TV show. There’s also memorabilia from such series as “Diff’rent Strokes, “The Waltons,” “Lost in Space,” “The Lucy Show,” “Make Room for Daddy,” “Kung Fu,” “My Three Sons, “Little House on the Prairie,” “Bewitched” and “The Dick Van Dyke Show.” The magic even approaches the present day with the wands from “Harry Potter.”

O'Brien also participated in the Museum’s child star autograph event weekend, which benefitted A Minor Consideration (http://aminorconsideration.org), a non-profit foundation giving guidance and support to young performers, past, present and future. Ms. O’Brien’s signing proceeds also help the charity Canine Companions for Independence (www.cci.org), which trains dogs to help people with disabilities.

As engaging as ever, O’Brien has future acting projects brewing. We were delighted that she graciously took time to chat with Pop Culture Classics.

POP CULTURE CLASSICS:
The Hollywood Museum exhibit, honoring the child stars, sounds like a lot of fun.

MARGARET O’BRIEN:
It is. It’s lovely. And it’s sort of an historical event for people to come and visit. They have these displays. They’re going to have a display from my movies, the clothes. They have my Oscar on display. I lent it to them for the next several months.

PCC:
And the autograph event, do you enjoy those sorts of interactions?

O’BRIEN:
Oh, I do. I mean, they are your fans. And they’re so sweet. They’re just lovely. I do enjoy talking with them and meeting with them. I really do.

PCC:
And your Oscar, what are your memories of receiving the Academy Award at that ceremony?

O’BRIEN:
Well, you know, that was lost for many years. And I think I’m one of the few actresses that have been presented with the same Oscar twice. I had two different ceremonies. The first one was the big ceremony… with Bob Hope. And then, when they returned it to me, they gave me a nice little ceremony at the Academy. And the head of the Academy at that time presented the Oscar back to me. So it has quite a little history to it.

PCC:
It must have seemed like a miracle, to have the original returned after all that time.

O’BRIEN:
It was. I never thought I’d see it again. And they had given me a replacement, but it just didn’t seem the same. You know, I felt that the replacement wasn’t the real Oscar that I had received on that wonderful occasion - Bob Hope gave it to me! [Laughs] And of course, at the time, I was a big fan of Bob Hope. But I never thought that I would get it back. So you never know. I guess one never gives up hope.

PCC:
There are so many child stars involved in this exhibit. Do you feel a kinship with others who have gone through that child actor experience?

O’BRIEN:
Well, you see, I was the only really child star at MGM. So I didn’t know the others. So I really don’t know the ones that are going to be there [laughs]. I know their names.

But Dean Stockwell, of course, I knew, because he was at the studio. There was a little boy by the name of Butch Jenkins, who was at the studio. And Natalie Wood and I became friends, but as teenagers, not as children. We were very, very dear friends, as teens.

But there weren’t a lot of child stars at MGM at that time. Elizabeth [Taylor] was older. Jane Powell was older. So they had their own friends. But Elizabeth was always very nice to me, because I was fascinated, as a child, with her chipmunks and all of her animals. She would always show me her chipmunks, when I would meet with her.

Because at the schoolhouse in those days, we were all different ages. You could have someone who was about ready to graduate, 18 years old, you could have someone in first grade. But I mainly had a private tutor on the lot, because I worked so much. But there was another little girl who was my stand-in throughout all my movies. And she was always with me. So it wasn’t like I was deprived of any friends or children or anything like that.

PCC:
But did you ever feel that you were sacrificing a normal childhood - school, dances - in exchange for the movie career?

O’BRIEN:
Oh, I did feel very normal. Although, we were not normal in many ways. We got to do many more things, probably, than other children… travel. That was my mother, because she was a bit of a gypsy and she loved traveling. And she was a very famous dancer, with the Casinos - Rita Hayworth’s family - their dance troupe. And my aunt [Marissa] was a famous dancer at all the big hotels, in Florida, the Fontainebleau.

And I knew the little boy whose parents owned the Fontainebleau there. In fact, it was very interesting, because I was looking at reels and he had been murdered by his wife. [In 2009, Ben Novack, Jr. and his mother were murdered three months apart. His estranged wife was convicted of orchestrating the killings.] And I knew him as a child. So we traveled a lot. I was in Cuba as a baby. My mother loved New York, so I was back in New York, many, many times. And then, of course, when the contracts ended at the studio, I did so much television. And a lot of it was out of New York. So I sort of traveled back and forth between Hollywood and New York.

PCC:
You mentioned Natalie Wood. Having had sort of parallel early careers, did you feel an immediate connection with one another, once you got together in your teens?

O’BRIEN:
Yes. It was kind of fun. My mother was Spanish and she was more of the old Spanish school of - you had to have a chaperone and things. Well, Natalie came into the picture, when we were about 16. And she had done some public school. Not all. She went to children’s actors school also. But she was dating. And I got her to let me go on some double dates. And from then on, I kind of went out with Natalie. And I was allowed to go out with her on double dates. Of course, we’d get into trouble sometimes, too. We’d go somewhere we weren’t supposed to go, as all teenagers do. But that was kind of fun, because she sort of got me out of my childhood shell, so to speak.

PCC:
She seemed like she would be a sweet person.

O’BRIEN:
She was, a very sweet person. We would have a great time. And she introduced me to my first boyfriend and all of that. So it was kind of a fun teenage time with Natalie.

PCC:
A lot of the child stars ended up having brief careers and troubled lives. What do you think was the key to you being able to transition to adolescent and adult roles?

O’BRIEN:
Well, I think when the movie contracts ended, I was so lucky that television became big. So I did every major television show - and with actors and wonderful directors I would never have had a chance to work with, if I’d been under contract. I worked with Jeff Hunter, Rod Taylor. I did Alfred Hitchcock’s show. I worked again with Robert Young in “Marcus Welby.” I did all of these shows. So I think that’s what transitioned me, so I really didn’t stop working.

And then I did a lot of stage work, a lot of theatre work. I went in for Sandy Dennis on Broadway, with Jason Robards. And then went on tour with it with Dane Clark for two years - “A Thousand Clowns.” And I also did a show for Clare Booth Luce. And another with Eddie Dowling, who was a very famous stage actor. I did “Romeo and Juliet” with John Barrymore, Jr., who was so handsome at the time. Drew Barrymore’s father. So I had a whole other career. And I’m very grateful for that.

And I was the type of person, I loved going out. I loved going places. I loved going to the restaurants. And the nightclubs, as a teenager. Natalie and I would be invited by Henry Wilson, who was the big agent at the time, to go out with Rock Hudson and Tab Hunter and all these wonderful people. But I always knew when enough was enough. And I always went home when I was supposed to be home. And I think that has a lot to do with it.

And I always knew who I was and what I wanted. And I never got into problems. In those days, they didn’t really have the drug scene so much. You’d have underage drinking, but you didn’t have the drugs so much. So I didn’t get into any of that type of thing. And I never got into it when I was older. I love life. And I love every day that I have. And I’m so grateful that I have such wonderful career and work ethics, that I got to see so much and meet so many wonderful people. I didn’t need anything else.

PCC:
You mentioned working with Jeff Hunter and Tab Hunter, what were your impressions of them?

O’BRIEN:
Oh, they were lovely, so very nice. Jeff Hunter gave me my first television kiss. And what teenage girl wouldn’t love to be kissed by Jeff Hunter? [Laughs] And I knew Tab, because Natalie and I used to go to some restaurants with Tab Hunter. And we did a whole tour together. And for my 18th birthday, the only person I wanted to have a birthday dinner with was Tab. So my mother called him up and took us to Chasen’s. And I was just enthralled, that I got to have my 18th birthday dinner with Tab Hunter. So I loved working with him later, when we did “Under The Yum Yum Tree.” And also Peter Fonda. I worked with Peter Fonda on stage. And Jimmy MacArthur. So I’ve really been so fortunate to work with wonderful people.

PCC:
Peter Fonda and John Barrymore, Jr. both had to grapple with getting out from under their father’s shadows.

O’BRIEN:
Absolutely. And Peter looks great today. I’m so sorry, some of the things that happened to John, because he was the handsomest person I’ve ever seen. And especially when he was Romeo. We did “Romeo and Juliet” on stage. And a wonderful actor. So I was upset about some of the things that happened to him in life. But Peter looks great. I saw him at an autograph show about three years ago. And he looks the same. So it’s amazing.

PCC:
It’s amazing that your acting performances, even from the earliest days, had such an genuineness. Do you think that was inherent in you? Or the result of focus and study?

O’BRIEN:
Well, it was focus. My mother did help me with the lines [before learning to read, O’Brien memorized the lines by having them recited to her]. But I kind of learned from the different directors that I worked with. And I took it very seriously. I don’t think people realize that child stars have to have a certain personality. You have to have a lot of patience, because sometimes you’ll do a scene over and over again. When I worked with Orson Welles in Jane Eyre, he was so nice to me, but he took a lot of takes. So as a child actor, you have to have patience and focus. And you have to really love doing it. Otherwise you would get all upset and you couldn’t do it. So you have to have a little bit of a different personality.

PCC:
And in “Jane Eyre,” you had to do a French accent. Did that come easily?

O’BRIEN:
I had a tutor that taught me the French accent. And accents did come easy for me. And, of course, my mother being part Spanish, I did speak Spanish a little bit. The studio didn’t want my mother to speak too much to me, because they didn’t want me to have a Spanish accent, because they were pushing more the Irish side of me, the O’Brien side, which was my father.

PCC:
So Orson Welles was patient with you?

O’BRIEN:
Oh, he was wonderful. He treated me like an adult actress. And he was very focused. And it was a different director [Robert Stevenson]. And Orson Welles, being a wonderful director, he didn’t try to direct. He took direction. And I was amazed and really liked him for that. He would take directions from the director. And didn’t talk back. He would try to do what the director wanted. The only thing was, at times, he would speak very softly. The sound man couldn’t get all the words at times. And that’s when they had to take several takes.

PCC:
And then the short you did, “You, John Jones,” [1943, directed by Mervyn LeRoy], that was a very demanding role for a child actor - representing children of all the war-torn nations.

O’BRIEN:
Oh, yes. That was amazing. That was one of my favorite things. And of course, working with James Cagney, he was absolutely so, so nice to me. And so was Ann Sothern. She played my mother in that short, “You, John Jones.” And after that, we did “Barefoot in the Park” together. She played my mother in “Barefoot in the Park.” So she played my mother twice.

PCC:
And “Journey For Margaret,” that’s where your name Margaret came from?

O’BRIEN:
Yes, because actually, Angela was my name. And I loved the part so much, I wanted to be Margaret. So my mother said okay. So we went down to the courthouse and I had it legally changed to Margaret.

PCC:
And you worked with Robert Young on that film and then again on “Canterville Ghost.” What are your recollections of him?

O’BRIEN:
Oh, he was so nice. He was like almost an uncle to me. We became very dear friends. And also we worked together in “Marcus Welby,” when I was older. And we would see him all the time. He was one of our dearest friends.

PCC:
And Charles Laughton on “Canterville Ghost,” what was he like?

O’BRIEN:
Oh, Charles Laughton was another dear friend to us and I loved working with him, because he also treated me as an adult actress. He’d get all upset if he thought I was stealing his scene. He’d go crying to Robert Young and say, “I think she’s a witch! She’s stealing my scenes!” And Robert Young would say, “No, you’re the ghost - you have all this wonderful costume and everything.” [Laughs] But we became very dear friends. I loved doing “Canterville Ghost.” Charles Laughton was my favorite actor. And we would see him after that. And we became very, very close.

PCC:
And then “Meet Me In St. Louis,” such a classic film. Working with Judy Garland, was the chemistry there right from the beginning?

O’BRIEN:
Oh, of course. There’s nobody like Judy. Judy was absolutely the most wonderful person. And not at all the tragic figure people think. She was happy-go-lucky. She loved playing with the kids. She loved jumping rope. I loved Judy. And I’m very dear friends with all her children, too.

PCC:
Was she kind of like a big sister figure to you during the filming?

O’BRIEN:
Yes, she was. Just like a big sister. And my memories of Judy are only the best. The very, very best. She was sweet. She was lovely. She was funny. She was fun. And those were my memories of Judy.

PCC:
Singing with her, was that daunting at all?

O’BRIEN:
[Laughs], Well, I didn’t have the greatest singing voice. That made me nervous. But not the dancing, because I came from a dancing family. So I loved doing the dance and I was really nervous with the singing. And she said, “Oh, I’ll sing along with you, Margaret. It sounds just fine. And you’re Tootie - you’re not supposed to hit every note. So don’t worry about it.” And it worked out just fine.

PCC:
There was a story about losing your front teeth during that film?

O’BRIEN:
[Laughs] Yes, I did. So they had to put these false teeth on me. And one day, we were doing a scene and they fell out. And fell onto Judy’s lap [laughs]. So that wasn’t so good.

PCC:
But she took it in stride?

O’BRIEN:
She did. She laughed. As I say, she had a wonderful sense of humor.

PCC:
And Mary Astor - what are your memories of her?

O’BRIEN:
Oh, she was very elegant. Very elegant. There was one time I did annoy her, though, because we were doing the dinner scene and I kept switching the plates. I thought it was fun. And she didn’t have quite the humor Judy did. She said [in a haughty, stern voice] “Now, Margaret, we have to get on with the scene. Don’t switch another plate. I want to go to my dressing room.”

PCC:
What was the most challenging scene for you on that picture?

O’BRIEN:
Well, that was the crying scene, when I was breaking my snowmen. And I had a hard time crying for that. And Vincent Minnelli [the film’s director], in his book, said he told me my dog had died. And a lot of people believe that’s how he got me to cry. But my mother never would have allowed that. What happened was, I had a hard time crying, because Judy was fun, we had just jumped rope, and I wasn’t in the mood to cry. And I was sort of in competition with June Allyson, because she cried a lot in her movies. We were known as the “Town Criers” of MGM. And we were in competition for who was going to come out the best.

So my mother came to me and said, “Why don’t I have the makeup man put false tears on you? They can do that. They’ll put them on your cheeks. Of course, June would always cry real tears. June is such a wonderful actress.” And that made me cry, because I was going to lose the competition.

PCC:
Generally was your crying technique to just concentrate on what the character was going through? Or did you draw from sense memory? Or did you develop little tricks of the trade?

O’BRIEN:
Well, mostly I could do it. I could feel the part and I could cry.

PCC:
Your mother almost pulled you out of doing “Meet Me in St. Louis”?

O’BRIEN:
Yes, because she wanted me to have a higher salary. The studio would have you work for nothing, but I’d already made several starring movies before “Meet Me in St. Louis.” So my mother said, “I’m not going to work my daughter. I want her to have something later on. So I want the top salary.” And, of course, Mr. Mayer [Louis B. Mayer] cried better than I could cry - when you asked him for money. And my mother took me to New York. But all the time they wanted me, because I already had the name built. So eventually we came back and they said, “Okay, we’re going to pay her the salary.” And that’s why I did the movie.

But they had another little girl they were going to use. See they had lookalikes. They would use the lookalikes and say, “Well, we can do without you!” But they couldn’t really. And it hurt a lot of people, thinking they were going to have the movie and then they didn’t. And they always kept them to use as a pawn, really.

PCC:
And there was an incident with that girl’s father?

O’BRIEN:
Well, the father got all upset and had a breakdown over it. He was a lighting man on the movie and he dropped a light almost on me. It was a terrible thing for the family, because she thought she was actually going to do it. But of course, not. So they don’t do that today, thank goodness.

PCC:
Is it still special to you, every time you hear “Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas”?

O’BRIEN:
Oh, yes, such wonderful songs were written for that movie. All of it. All of it is original for the movie. And they’ve gone on and on and on. I mean, “Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas” is played every Christmas. And the “Cakewalk” one. The songs are just fabulous. Nobody made musicals like MGM. They had a group of the films on the other night and I hadn’t seen them for a while. And my, the way they did musicals! They showed one of mine. They were doing a lot of Cyd Charisse movies. And they were showing “Unfinished Dance.” And the color on that was absolutely gorgeous. That Technicolor, nothing compares to that color.

PCC:
The beautiful ballet sequences, those must have meant lots of hard work for you.

O’BRIEN:
It was a lot of hard work. But, of course, my mother being a dancer, I loved dancing. And, in fact, they wanted me to go and be a dancer in Russia, because I had a Russian ballet teacher [laughs]. That’s a lot of hard work. My mother said, “No, she’s under contract to MGM. She’s all settled. No way is she going to Russia.”

PCC:
Your character certainly caused a lot of trouble in that film.

O’BRIEN:
Yes, I was a sort of naughty little girl in that. In the film, I loved Karin Booth, who was a dancer I was a fan of at the ballet school and I didn’t want this other dancer, Cyd Charisse coming in, taking her place. So I wanted her to fall. I didn’t mean for her to fall through the trap door, though. I just wanted everybody to laugh at her. I didn’t want to hurt her. That was an accident. So I’m the one that pulled the switch and then, of course, felt very badly afterwards.

PCC:
And then “Little Women,” another great ensemble cast. What was that experience like for you?

O’BRIEN:
Oh, of course, I loved doing “Little Women.” It was my favorite book. And they were wonderful to work with, all the girls. And then we all stayed friends after the movie, very good friends, because we felt we were the Little Women, you know? So we always had to keep in touch.

PCC:
And “Secret Garden,” another classic - and a challenging role.

O’BRIEN:
Well, that was another favorite book. I was so lucky to be in so many of my favorite books - “Jane Eyre,” “Little Women,” “Secret Garden.” I was very fortunate. And “Meet Me in St. Louis” was a famous book by Sally Benson, before they did the movie. So I did a lot of wonderful books. And “Secret Garden” was one of my favorites. I loved doing that part. I was thrilled to know I was going to do that movie.

PCC:
And so many legendary stars you worked with - Edward G. Robinson on “Our Vines Have Tender Grapes.”

O’BRIEN:
Written by the wonderful Dalton Trumbo, of course. And, of course, they didn’t publicize that movie enough. That’s a lot of people’s favorite movie, because it was so well written. But Dalton Trumbo was having a problem at the time [due to the era’s paranoia about communist ties]. So they kept that movie quiet. But now they’re showing it more on TCM, which I’m really happy about. And it’s a beautiful script. It’s a beautiful movie. And it was one of Edward G. Robinson’s favorite movies, because he played a completely different role, a Norwegian farmer.

PCC:
And what was he like?

O’BRIEN:
Very nice. Absolutely wonderful. And I stayed very good friends with him, too. I loved Edward G. Robinson - very, very nice to work with.

PCC:
And Dalton Trumbo, did you get to know him well?

O’BRIEN:
Yes, actually we did. As a matter of fact, I recently saw the movie “Trumbo,” and it was very interesting, because my mother was very good friends with his wife. And when they were showing the plane sequence with everybody with the signs [of support], my mother was down there with Mrs. Trumbo. And the studio was having a fit at the time. But my mother wasn’t afraid. She said he was a lovely man and his wife is a lovely lady and I’m going to see him off. And she did. But it didn’t hurt my career [laughs], so…

PCC:
And working with Lionel Barrymore on “Three Wise Fools”?

O’BRIEN:
Oh, very wonderful. He was just like a grandfather to me. He would make me wonderful rag dolls. He gave me a beautiful pin that had belonged to his family. All the women would wear it on opening night at the theatre - Ellen Drew, Ethel Barrymore. He gave the pin to me. So I was very, very flattered.

PCC:
Co-starring with Wallace Beery and Majorie Main on “Bad Bascomb” - were they more difficult to work with?

O’BRIEN:
Well, Marjorie Main was great. But Wallace Beery was the only person who was very difficult to work with. And they’d have to put blocks between us, in a scene, so he wouldn’t pinch me so I’d turn my face from the camera. We were on location, where he had his log cabin. And they had hot lunches for the people that had longer hours. And for some of the extra people, that were only on for a few minutes, they had the box lunch. And he tried to steal my hot lunch. And my mother would steal it back. My mother was feisty. He didn’t get away with too much with her.

PCC:
With so much early success, was it difficult to handle?

O’BRIEN:
No. No, I loved it. I loved every minute of it. And my mother saw that I had my days, that I enjoyed and had a lot of fun. No, it was, and still is, a wonderful life.

PCC:
Seeing all the Margaret O’Brien dolls and paper dolls, was that fun, too? Or was that a little strange to you?

O’BRIEN:
Oh, I had beautiful dolls given to me over the years, the Margaret O’Brien doll. But when I had a daughter, I had to go out and buy it, because I had scalped my Margaret O’Brien doll [laughs]. So we had to go to a store and buy the doll, which had gone up in price a lot by the time we had to buy her. But absolutely, all of those things were wonderful. And the doll people were wonderful, too.

PCC:
So with this wonderful career, what was the most rewarding aspect for you?

O’BRIEN:
Just a wonderful life - getting to meet people I never would have had a chance to meet. I traveled all over the world. And that’s wonderful for a child. It’s a wonderful education. I even went to Japan and did a movie in Japanese shortly after the war… with their little girl that was the Margaret O’Brien of Japan. And is an icon today. She’s the Judy Garland of Japan. So I was in Japan for three months and learned Japanese for the movie. It was a Japanese company, the same company that made “Rashomon.” So I had a chance to do a lot of wonderful things, you know?

PCC:
You mentioned TCM, it must be gratifying to see a new generation discovering your pictures through outlets like that?

O’BRIEN:
Well, yes. Turner is fabulous. I’ve always done everything Turner asked me, because they have really kept you alive for generations to come. Years from now, people will still see movies like “Meet Me in St. Louis” and they’ll know there’s nothing like MGM. That studio made names that are known today. People come up to me today like I just made “Meet Me in St. Louis.” So it’s great. You get a whole fan following from all over the world. So it’s wonderful. And thank goodness that Mr. Turner had the foresight to show all these movies… and restore them! TCM restores so many of these movies. And it’s wonderful for people to see… and know the history of movies. And that’s why I’m excited to be involved in this event at the Max Factor Building. People can see the history in these displays.

PCC:
You’re such a great part of Hollywood history, but we hope to see you in many more roles to come.

O’BRIEN:
I’m still very, very busy… thank goodness!