By Paul Freeman [2003 Interview]

In the ‘60s, every aspiring rocker dreamed of being in a band like The Beatles. But imagine actually being a Beatle, bashing out riotously raw sounds for wildly enthusiastic crowds in dark, dank Hamburg and Liverpool clubs.

You feel, deep in your bones, that hit records are just around the corner. And after pouring your heart and soul into the band for two years, on the eve of The Beatles’ breakthrough, Brian Epstein calls you into his office and tells you that you’ve been replaced. No explanation. Ever. And your former bandmates, about to become the world’s hottest attraction, have left you out in the cold.

That’s the Pete Best story. Best was the original drummer for the Fab Five, which included John Lennon, Paul McCartney, George Harrison and Stuart Sutcliffe (who died at 21) . Best’s mum, Mona, owner of Liverpool’s Casbah Club, helped the group, performing booking and management tasks.

Best, whose smoldering looks made him especially popular with female fans, provided a steady, driving backbeat for the band. But during the “Love Me Do” recording sessions, he was given the boot, the Beatle boot.

At early gigs with their new drummer, Ringo Starr, fans chanted, “Ringo never! Pete Best forever!” But soon Ringo was embraced by the band’s following and the group rocketed to unprecedented popularity.

Best formed his own combo, but wasn’t able to make much of a dent in the charts. Following a suicide attempt, he decided to leave show business. He worked loading bread onto delivery vans and later, as a civil servant, retraining the unemployed to find new career paths.

After turning down innumerable requests to again man a drum kit, Best reluctantly played a Beatles convention in Liverpool in 1988. Since then, Best and his dynamite band have been wowing audiences around the world, presenting a vibrant, exciting brand of British Invasion-style rock ‘n’ roll.

In 2008, the band released “Haymans Green,” an absolutely sparkling new album of original material, irresistible, fresh-sounding songs, performed in true Merseybeat spirit.

In 1995, The Beatles’ “Anthology 1” was released, featuring numerous tracks with drummer Best. This resulted in vindication, as well as royalties.

Best has been married to wife Kathy since 1963. They have two daughters and now four grandchildren.

For Best, who turned 69 on November 24, life has never been better.

On the eve of a 2003 North American tour, an affable Pete Best spoke to Pop Culture Classic’s Paul Freeman.

POP CULTURE CLASSICS:
As you tour around the world, is it surprising to see how many Pete Best fans there are and how enthusiastic they are?

PETE BEST:
That’s something that never ceases to amaze me, the fact that the majority of them realize the part you played with The Beatles and the work you put in for The Beatles.

PCC:
Do your shows combine your own material and rock ‘n’ roll classics, as well as Beatles tunes?

BEST:
Yeah. We’re not a tribute band, so let’s get that out of the way. There’s other bands out there that are basically tribute bands, copy bands, who play Beatles music note for note. and word for word.

We’re The Pete Best Band. It’s a big lineup. It’s a very big sound - double drums, twin lead guitars, Both lead guitarists are capable lead guitarists and take turns, play solo, double up. Plus bass guitar and a front-line singer. Of course, everyone sings. So there are lots of harmonies, a big powerhouse sound, lots of audience participation numbers.

But the essence of the act, basically, as it stands at the present moment, is material I was involved with, standards, the golden classics, material that we did in Germany for Polydor, some of the Decca sessions, some of the work which we did at EMI. And, of course, interspersed among all of those, there’s some Beatles gems, which we enjoy playing, as well. So there’s something there for all the audience. There’s a cross-section. We like to see the audience get into it, participating, because, really, we want to see them enjoy themselves.

PCC:
Do you get a chance to add some stories in the intros?

BEST:
Oh, yeah, we throw a couple of anecdotes in, some of the introductions, to clue the audience in, let them know what’s happening and do a few reflections down Memory Lane. But not too much, because, at the end of the day, it’s not a Pete Best talk show. It’s The Pete Best Band in concert.

PCC:
And you stick around for autographs after your sets?

BEST:
Oh, yeah, no matter where we play, all over the world, it doesn’t matter if it’s concert, festival, club, outdoor arena, we make time after the show to actually sit down and sign autographs and talk to people. It’s our way of turning around and saying, ‘Thank you.’ We respect the audience for coming and watching the show. They’ve enjoyed it. And it’s our way of saying ‘Thank you’ to them.

PCC:
What originally attracted you to the drums?

BEST:
I suppose it goes back to the old black-and-white movies, you know, the big band stuff, the likes of Gene Krupa. I just saw him playing the drums and just became, basically, infatuated with it. If there was going to be an instrument, that was going to be the instrument.

Then, when The Casbah opened in 1959, live music started to actually be performed in the cellars beneath your house. And there were drummers there. It was basically, the more I saw it, the more I saw people playing drums, as road soldiers came through Liverpool, it was like, ‘I definitely want to be a drummer.’

Plus the fact that people were always turning around, saying I had natural rhythm. I was always bangin’ my feet, tappin’ my fingers, knockin’ on sauce pans [Chuckles]. So it seemed the logical instrument to choose.

PCC:
I read that one of your influences was Dave Brubeck’s drummer, Joe Morello.

BEST:
Yeah, I mean, you progress. It was Gene Krupa initially, because of his powerhouse style, great flair and a lot of tom-tom work, pretty bold. And then, you update yourself, try to explore different styles. And Joe Morello was another one I admired. And from Joe Morello, you move on to Buddy Rich and then Sonny Payne and, my goodness me, there’s so many world-class drummers out there. You just listen to them and try to emulate a little bit.

PCC:
When you first hooked up with The Beatles, did you know immediately that this was something special?

BEST:
I think we knew that we were going to be big, simply because of the response we were getting, initially in Germany, Hamburg, then, of course, when we came back home to Liverpool and the reaction we were getting in Liverpool. That was why we had belief in ourselves. We realized what we could do, what we were capable of doing, how we were possibly changing the music history in Liverpool.

But our sights, at that time, as you can imagine, being totally honest about it, were set on, yes, we would get a recording contract and we would get a number one. But I don’t think anyone in their right mind would ever imagine they were going to become the icons of the music industry that they are today.

PCC:
In your book, “True Beginnings,” are there stories in there that you think most people have never heard?

BEST:
Oh, very much so, yeah. It’s an untold story, to be quite honest. As it says, it’s The Beatles, the true beginnings. It’s dealing with unsung heroes. And righting some of the myths, which were created, which need to be rectified. And giving people the credit, which they so truly deserve. Amongst them is my mother, because of her involvement with The Casbah and how she gave the lifeline for The Beatles, you know, this intricate, intrinsic story which evolved because of her involvement with The Beatles, the support of The Beatles. I was in The Beatles. It’s a wonderful story. But it’s a story which had to be told because it puts into perspective the unsung heroes and gives them the credit which they so truly deserve.

PCC:
Who are some of the other unsung heroes?

BEST:
There’s a lot of them in there. There’s my brother Roag. He’s an unsung hero. There’s other people in Liverpool who’ve done a lot to support The Beatles, fans from The Casbah, who followed them basically from, I suppose you could turn ‘round and say, their infancy, when they played at The Casbah as The Quarrymen.

Plus you’ve got wonderful anecdotes. You’ve got Paul McCartney, who basically, who turns around and says, ‘Yes, the world knows about The Cavern, but it’s about time the world knows about The Casbah. It was our club.’ And I think when something like that, when Paul speaks so magnanimously about his particular roots and gives credit to this humble club, which became the catalyst for the Merseybeat sound, then there is something very positive there. It’s a story which hasn’t been told before.

PCC:
That must have been a magical time for you, when the Liverpool music scene was emerging.

BEST:
It was. It was absolutely brilliant. I was privileged to be a part of it. That’s the way I look at it. It was a privilege to be part of the family that was bringing this music and this embryo and be actually around when all this was happening. Every major band in Liverpool played The Casbah, in some shape or form, and speaks very affectionately very affectionately about The Casbah and how important it was. And how important it was to them.

PCC:
All the escapades in Germany, was it as wild as we might imagine for The Beatles over there?

BEST:
I think so, yeah. If you go back and you want to be really cynical or nitpicky about it, you could most probably turn around and say, yeah, it happened 40-odd years ago and what were crazy antics then, compared with what’s happened with the rock legends of today, pale into insignificance.

But the underlying fact is, you have got to go back 40 years and things we were doing were absolutely unheard of. And that was the start of rock mania. We were doing things in Germany, you know, drunk on stage, antics in the streets, stopping the people, mock fights, fighting with people. It was a trend which we set. And a lot of bands followed suit.

PCC:
As far as the individual personalities of the band members, what were your impressions of John, Paul, George and Stuart?

BEST:
Well, I liked all of them. But I was closest to John, no doubt about it. The first time I met him, I was drawn to his caustic humor and the sardonic wit that he had.

But when we were in Hamburg, and we spent a lot of time together in Hamburg, I suddenly realized that there was another side to John, which the public didn’t see. And that was a very tender and a very loving side. I suppose I could turn around and say I was privileged to actually know that side of him, because I could see the man in his total form, as a person, as opposed to what John wanted the public to see. And, along with that, he was a great musician, as well.

Paul, again, another great musician. He was very much, going back to the time that I was with him, and I think he is, watching from afar now, still very much p.r.-orientated. He was in those days. He wanted to make sure that people knew exactly what he and The Beatles were up to. Any news, he always made sure that the people back home heard about it. So, even from that early age, he was very much p.r.-orientated. But a great musician, as well. Very accomplished vocal range. Vocal ability - absolutely incredible.

And George, quietest member of the band and to be quite honest, the youngest member of the band. And even though he was quiet, even at that stage, and if you look back at his career, he wanted to be a guitarist of repute... and a performer of repute. And I think that practice came to fulfillment when you hear George’s work and his guitar work. It’s something that makes him stand out from a lot of other guitarists.

Stu, of course, smallest member of the band, but the biggest heart. That’s what I always turned ‘round and said. And he wasn’t the bad bass player that the world has basically thrown this title at him. The media’s picked up on it and said he was a bad bass player. There are better bass players and there are worse bass players. But when someone gives you 200 percent on stage and they eat, sleep and drink what The Beatles are all about, then I think that person is doing a wonderful job for The Beatles and he deserves that credit.

But, of course, we all knew that Stu’s other passion in life, apart from Astrid Kirchherr, who he fell madly in love with, was his art. He was a brilliant artist. It’s only now, after his death, that the world has realized what a prolific artist he was.

PCC:
When Brian Epstein took over the group’s management, did you view that initially as a positive thing?

BEST:
It seemed like the logical way to go to be quite honest. My mother had been helping out on the management side. I’d been helping out on the business side. But you’ve got to remember that, even though my mother was helping, her main priority was the club. So it was very much a case, when Brian came along, and Brian put the deal to us, it was a no strings attached deal. if it works, then it works. If it doesn’t, then you can walk or I’ll walk away from it. He was truthful... at that moment in time. Plus the fact that we knew his reputation. He seemed to fit the bill. He was rich [Laughs]. He had a record shop. He had contacts in the record industry. He drove around in a big, white, flashy car, wore pinstripe suits, talked very posh. That seemed to be our template for a good manager.

But, to make sure, he didn’t do it overnight. He asked ‘round. He made sure that people were aware and that they knew what was happening. In fact, he even went and asked my mother, would it be okay if he took over the reins as manager? And my mother’s reply to that was basically, ‘You know, Brian, I have no intentions of managing them, in that particular capacity. And the only thing I can turn around and do is say, if you are going to manage them, then do a good job.’ And hopefully, that’s what he did.

PCC:
And Ringo had actually been a friend of yours?

BEST:
Yeah, I mean, I’d known Ringo from the early Casbah days, basically. So you’re turning ‘round and saying 1959. And, of course, he was over in Germany. He came over with Rory Storm and the Hurricanes. And then, of course, when he came to Liverpool, he was on the same bill or we’d meet up at the Cavern or we’d bump into one another in town, as most musicians did in those days.

PCC:
But when Brian broke the news that the lads wanted to make the switch, were you totally stunned? Or had there been some sense that this might be coming?

BEST:
No, no. That’s the funny thing, Paul. There’d been no real forewarning at all about it. If you look back, in hindsight, there may have been a possible couple of suggestions. But when you’re not expecting anything like that and you’ve got a recording contract and you’re going back to put the finishing touches on ‘Love Me Do,’ that’s the least thing from your mind.

Plus the fact, what we have found out now is that there was a lot going on behind the scenes. And that was, I suppose, the hard part. They weren’t upfront about it. They were doing it behind closed doors. And, of course when Brian told me about the dismissal, it was closed shop. There was nothing to be done. It was already set in stone. And Ringo was already in the band, basically.

PCC:
Did you try to confront the other guys face-to-face and find out why this happened?

BEST:
They weren’t there at the dismissal. That was something which upset me quite a lot. It didn’t give me a chance to defend myself. Even though John said, many, many years afterwards, ‘We were cowards. We should have been at the dismissal, but we were frightened as regards what it might lead to.’

After that, I played on the same bill as them about two or three times. But, as we were coming off stage, they were going on stage and that most obviously is not the right forum to try and actually discuss what your dismissal was about [Chuckles]. So consequently, as a result of that, you get involved with your own career and you do tend to drift above.

PCC:
But there must be such anger and frustration at a situation so unjust. How did you deal with all of that?

BEST:
Well, I think resentment. Yeah, frustration. Financial embarrassment. It does stay with you for a while. But if you retain that, then I think you do end up being very bitter and very cynical. And, basically, we come from a strong family with a strong backbone. And if was very much a case of, if you get knocked down, then you get up and you try twice as hard. And that’s exactly what we did.

It was very much a case of I realized what’s happened, but there’s no sense in crying over spilt milk, as we tend to say over here. It was very much about today and tomorrow. And your life has to go on, regardless of what’s happened.

PCC:
But there was so much conjecture about the reason or reasons, whether it was a case of the personality thing or the drumming itself or Paul’s jealousy or the group’s jealousy or I even heard that Brian had made advances that were spurned.

BEST:
Oh, it’s like trying to get me to answer the million dollar question. The whole thing is, yeah, I’m most aware of all the assumptions, the theories, the reasons which people put forward. None of them really hold up any strength. You can dismiss those very clinically and very fast. My answer to that is, I suppose there are only two or three people alive today who know the definitive reason. And if it comes out before we leave the planet, all well and good. But, if it doesn’t, maybe it’s going to be one of these things that remains a secret, like the secret of the Pharaohs, which go on and on and people will sit down and try and solve the enigma of the dismissal.[Laughs]

PCC:
To have people asking you about it for 40 years, that must make it more difficult to get past it.

BEST:
You hate that people come up and ask the questions. They might know themselves that I don’t know the definitive reason. But I’ll answer them. Maybe they think, ‘Well, I’ll hear it from the horse’s mouth. Even though it’s been asked a thousand times before, I’ll hear it from him.’ That’s the reason that they ask the questions.

PCC:
I had read that, back in ‘65, there was a suicide attempt. Was that the low point where it had just become impossible to deal with all of the ramifications of the dismissal, career-wise and otherwise?

BEST:
No, a lot of people have pointed at it that way, because of the timing and all the other bits and pieces. To be quite honest, Paul, it wasn’t a low time or anything like that. It wasn’t depression. It was just something bloody stupid, which gets in your mind. Right? And you do it.

I was fortunate. I was saved by my mother and my other younger brother Rory. And they gave me a good talking to. They said, basically, ‘Look, Pete, what the hell are you doing? You’re married. You’ve got a lovely young daughter..You’ve got a beautiful wife. You owe it to them. Your are going to deprive them of having a father and a husband.’ That talk basically set me straight. It was like, yes, you have been a bloody idiot. And I made a vow that nothing like that would ever happen again. And it won’t.

PCC:
So that was a positive turning point, actually?

BEST:
It was in a way, simply because, okay, we’d been very positive all along the line. But, when something like that happens, and you’re saved from it, when someone sits down and talks to you and says, basically, ‘You’re a damn fool. You’ve got your whole to live. You’re depriving yourself and your family of it.’ It does make you sit back. It puts life into a different perspective and you do realize that, in a way, you’re being selfish. You do have a family. You do have a wife. You do have a daughter. You do have brothers. You do have a mother and father. You owe it to them to keep living your life.

PCC:
So watching The Beatles become this global phenomenon, did you just try to put that out of your mind? How did you deal with that?

BEST:
I think like everything else. I mean, the phenomena was something that no one believed. I mean, if you’d have turned around, when I was in the band, and said, ‘Yeah, they’re going to become the biggest icons in the music industry,’ it was like, ‘Yeah, pull the other leg, so to speak.’

But, I suppose, the irony of it was that we knew ourselves that we were going to be big. And I think where the hurt came was not so much from this meteoric rise to the phenomenon they became. It was the initial success that they had. That was the self-belief which we knew was going to happen. The phenomenon, the icon, that was something you could never foresee. That was the last thing on your mind. What was reality was the fact that, with the first record release, it went into the charts and then they were charting regularly after that.

And it was that initial breakthrough, that was what was hard to follow, simply because of the fact that you were that close to it. What transpired after that was show business. But what happened initially was the self-belief which you had in the band, which you should have been part of.

PCC:
But after what they had done to you, and then to have that whole thing happen with the 1965 Ringo interview in Playboy (resulting in a libel suit that was settled), which implied that you had been fired because of drug use, that uncalled for accusation must have been intolerable. Were you shocked by that?

BEST:
No, over the period of time, there’d been lots of things, from media, different things. I suppose that was straw which broke the camel’s back. I’d put up with so much over the years. And then to get someone possibly making the suggestions that I was using drugs and all the other bits and pieces, knowing full well that you weren’t, you’re a healthy person, it was just like, hang on a minute. Enough’s enough.

PCC:
Getting out of the business and going into the civil service, at that time, was music still important to you? Did it remain a part of your life?

BEST:
Oh, music’s always been a part of my life. If I wasn’t playing it, then I was always listening to it. And dancing to it and all the other bits and pieces that you do when you put music on. But, performing-wise, it was a decision which I made. And I think I knew that the only way I could put it to one side and completely turn over a new leaf was to stop with it altogether. No playing on stage, no tinkering around, no having a jam session, sitting in with a couple of lads in a pub or something like that. It was just a case of, now I’ve put my sticks away, I’ve put my drums away, that’s it, I’ve turned over a new life.

PCC:
Was there any sense that, all that fame that had come to people you knew might have been a mixed blessing? There were a lot of casualties among the rock musicians of the time.

BEST:
I think, when you look back. When people look upon, I suppose you could say, those of superstar status, they look upon purely the financial aspect of it. They don’t realize that, behind it, there’s a lot of hard work, pressures that they aren’t aware of. And a lot of people have always turned ‘round and said, ‘You were the unlucky one.’ And I’ve always turned around and said, ‘No, I was the lucky one. I’m a survivor.’

I’ve still got my health. I’ve still got my happiness. I’ve got a great band band, which is back together again. I’ve got a manager which has held intact for 40 years. And I’ve got two wonderful daughters which have produced four grandchildren, which I idolize and spoil. And I feel that I’m the lucky one.

PCC:
When The Beatles’ ‘Anthology’ was released, what did that mean to you, both in terms of validation and financial security?

BEST:
Apart from that, to end up with 10 tracks out of 60 on ‘Anthology 1,’ financially, yeah, thank you very much. That was something which you never expected. Thank you for all the blessings and I’ll take them and say thank you very much.

But deep down inside, apart from the financial aspect, the other side, and for myself, was the fact, I looked upon it like, you put in such a lot of hard work at the beginning. That gives the public a little bit of the inkling of how important you felt your contribution was to a particular story.

PCC:
Upon retiring from the employment service and getting back into performing, was that like being reborn? What was that feeling for you?

BEST:
Well, it wasn’t something that wasn’t planned, to be quite honest with you. We did a one-off concert, after many, many years, Paul. I’d been asked, since I’d hung my sticks up, to basically get back on stage and just let the public see what I could do. It was at a Beatle convention in Liverpool, at the Adelphi. The promoters had been after me for many years. And they basically nailed me this particular year, twisted my arm up my back until I couldn’t take it anymore [Laughs]. I said, ‘Okay, okay, I’ll give in. But I’ll do it my way.’ I just got together with some old friends from the Merseybeat days - Billy Kinsley, Dave Goldberg and Kenny Berry and my younger brother Roag, who plays drums, as well, and still plays drums with me even today, in my own band, because it’s a double-drum lineup.

And we just got together and basically turned around and said, ‘We’re just going to play some good old rock ‘n’ roll. And what we thought was going to be a one-off. When we came off stage, my mother and my wife were there, and they basically turned around and said, ‘You don’t know it, Pete, but you’re going to be back in show business. And, lo and behold, within a couple of weeks of that, Paul, we had offers to start touring, go back into the recording studio and, consequently, as a result of that, here I am, 15 years down the line, still trodding the boards and enjoying every minute of it.

PCC:
I had heard a while back that there was a rock biopic planned about your life. Is that still a possibility?

BEST:
Oh, it’s still in the pipeline. All I can turn around and say at the moment is, it’s still in the embryo stage. We hope to know more about it by early next year.

PCC:
In the meantime, we’re looking forward to seeing you back here in the States.

BEST:
Well, I have to turn around and say, I’m very proud of the band. It’s a great band. They’re all Liverpool lads. We have a lot of fun on stage. We travel well. We’ve toured the world. We keep having to go back, which speaks volumes for the band. And they’re getting great, rave reviews. People who see the band turn around and say it’s a great show, it’s a great sound and it creates a lot of fun and a lot of enjoyment. And to me, that’s what music’s all about.

For the latest on Pete Best, visit www.petebest.com.