By Paul Freeman (June 2010)

Who needs Paxil? if you’re feeling down, just expose yourself to Richard Lewis. No, no, keep your genitals in your pants. I mean, grab yourself one of Lewis’ stand-up DVDs or catch his appearances on “Curb Your Enthusiasm.” Paroxysms of laughter will quickly cure your blues.

This comedy icon reflects the qualities of his own idols - Lenny Bruce’s daring and audacity, Woody Allen’s hilarious panorama of neuroses and Jimi Hendrix’s infinite inventiveness.

The man who introduced the phrase “the ____ from hell” into the lexicon has turned many lives around with his funny and poignant autobiography, “The Other Great Depression.” It unsparingly, insightfully recounts his recovery from substance abuse.

In his frenzied sets, Lewis spills his guts, vents his spleen and takes psyche-spelunkers on an expedition into the spider-covered caverns of his mind. Fears, frustrations, insecurities, compulsions... Who knew low self-esteem could be such fun?

Comedy Central named him one of the 50 greatest stand-up comics of all time. We’d say top 5.

As I picked up the phone for our early morning interview, I had a rasp in my voice. Lewis immediately declared me to be deeply depressed and embarked on a therapy session. As the conversation wended its way through a crazy collection of subjects, he had me in tears... from a gaggle of guffaws. If humor is the best medicine, Lewis is a doctor without peer.

He slays not only on TV and on the stage, but on the phone, as well. Once he gets on a roll, the wit crackles in a hypnotic rhythm. His lightning-fast mind can send him careening onto a sharp tangent, mid-sentence, even mid-word.

Lewis makes angst seem positively orgasmic. As we spoke, he had plenty of reasons to be cheery. He has been happily married to wife Joyce for five years. The return of “Curb” for an eighth season has just been announced. Reruns of the series have begun on the TV Guide Network. And he’s about to play a four-night engagement at Cobb’s Comedy Club in San Francisco. [July 15-18, 2010; 415-928-4320 or LiveNation.com for info]

Throughout our conversation, Lewis revisited my mental health, determined to keep me from pulling my own plug (which, if it doesn’t kill you, can make you go blind). Next time we chat, I’ll be ready, reclining on a couch.

At the end of the interview, keep reading... and laughing, as we’ve included a couple of our past encounters with the once and future Prince of Pain.

POP CULTURE CLASSICS:
How are you?

RICHARD

LEWIS:

USA! USA! USA!

PCC:
Oh, no, not football? You’re watching the World Cup?

LEWIS:
Well, look. I know very about it, but I woke up, put on the thing, then my wife, who knows nothing about football or soccer or whatever, she came up, put a bandana on her head. I said, ‘Wait a minute!’ I don’t know. Look, for the world in chaos, a winning goal is a good thing.

PCC:
This is true. We all need diversions.

LEWIS:
You sound extraordinarily unhappy to hear me today.

PCC:
[Laughs]

LEWIS:
I’ve never heard... This is the most depressing journalist tone I’ve heard... in 40 years... Really. This is how I sound on stage.

PCC:
[Laughs] I was counting on you to cheer me up, actually.

LEWIS:
I’m sorry. Obviously, this is going to be a nightmare

PCC:
For you, maybe. For me, it’s going to be a delight.

LEWIS:
No, it won’t be a delight. Something’s going on... It’s a family thing... a thing... whatever it is. Now you go, ‘Oh, now I’ve got to call this guy. We’re supposed to talk... but who cares? I don’t want to hear about Larry David, ‘Curb.’ I don’t want to hear about anything. I don’t care about the soccer Cup. McChrystal. The President might fire this guy from Afghanistan. Why are we even there?’ You’re bringing in all of your life stuff... and it’s unfair.

All of this is about a little nightclub engagement in San Francisco. I have no children. I’ve devoted myself to the arts. Maybe, do you want to take a swim? Do you have pools up there?

PCC:
Not in my place, no.

LEWIS:
[Laughs] Oh, see now you’re going to start talking about you lost out on the mortgage thing. Everything I say... You’re blaming me for the economy, recession, for going to Iraq in the first place... instead of going to Bora Bora... It’s not my fault!

PCC:
[Laughs] Well, I did look at you as a savior, so the failure to actually make all those things right, I have to hold against you... just a little bit... But, hey, we’re looking forward to your return to San Francisco.

LEWIS:
Well, I’ve been performing there for almost 35 years. There’s really two cities that were always crucial to me, historically. San Francisco and Chicago. Both of them were legendarily important. It was far more important than New York City. Those were the cities where all of the giants had to go through, the famous little clubs, The Purple Onion, all of them. And, if you couldn’t make it in those clubs, you were sort of out. So I always sort of focused on San Francisco, and Chicago, as well. But it’s really brought me a lot of good luck. I’ve performed at most of the venues up there, already. And this nightclub has gone through a lot of changes. It’s pretty cool. It’s a really pretty venue.

I’m just in the middle of a road trip now. You want to start whining... I was just 90 miles outside of Seattle in a Native American casino... which is fine. I mean, they got so shafted. Look at what they gave away - Manhattan for... a harmonica and a pie. So I hope they have as many casinos as possible.

But just getting to the casino... I was driving by, just passing silos and nuclear waste plants. I said to the driver, ‘Who comes to this place? Where are they?’ Apparently, they come up from underground... But not San Francisco. That’s very different. In the heart of the action...

I’m always rambling and saying nothing, first of all, because I feel that you might take your life, honestly.

PCC:
[Laughs] I would wait until after the call.

LEWIS:
Would you really?

PCC:
Of course. That would be only professional.

LEWIS:
I hope so, because ... [distracted by the TV] God, Lawrence Taylor indicted on charges of rape, criminal sexual act and sexual... You know, it’s just unbelievable. I even put on the Cartoon Network and...

PCC:
Boomerang! You could watch Boomerang.

LEWIS:
What is Boomerang? I don’t have kids.

PCC:
They have the old cartoons, Huckleberry Hound and...

LEWIS:
Oh, it does?! I’ll never find it. You know, I looked yesterday, I had 12,400 channels and I’m only stuck on fi... You know what I mean?

That’s why, I swear to God, when I go on stage now, everyone is so full of fear - most people - that I just tell them, every problem, I say, ‘Look, just forget about it, man. Just forget about everything for an hour and vicariously lose yourself in my absolute whirling dervish of dysfunction, which I really do have. I mean, I’m a recovering drug addict and all that stuff for years now. But I still can’t shake about 99 percent of the things that got me into my addictions. So, fortunately, I have people...

If it wasn’t for performing, I’d probably have no friends [Laughs], because they really can’t stand it. My wife has like a three or four-minute time limit with me. Like a beeper goes off - All right, I’ll see you in an hour.

Residents of the North Star State who are facing drug addiction issues would do well to find a detox program in Minnesota that will get them started on the way to full rehabilitation.

PCC:
So that’s how she deals?

LEWIS:
Yeah, well, we came up with a compromise. Otherwise... I mean, if I lost her, I’d be sunk. I got married five years ago. I mean, I know her for like 12 years. But I... There’s something... It’s like that old Groucho Marx thing, you know, about, ‘I wouldn’t want to be a member of a club that has me...‘ There’s something about trusting this marriage, which I never will, because she said ‘I do.’

I’m convinced under breath it was, ‘Uh, ah, um... Maybe.’ She murmured something else.

PCC:
But did you get the sense that it was finally right time, right woman? Or did you think, ‘Why didn’t I do this years ago?’

LEWIS:
No, first of all, let me just say this again. I care more about your mental health. This is like talking to a man waiting to go to the gallows. I’m so sorry your life has taken a bad turn today.

PCC:
[Laughs]

LEWIS:
I don’t care about this nightclub engagement. I care more about you.

PCC:
You’re a mensch.

LEWIS:
I’m a spiritual guy; I’m not an organized religion guy. But right now, you’re so riddled with fear and anger and self-loathing, I feel so narcissistic mentioning, ‘Hey, yeah, tell them about the date and Frisco. I have a lot of friends up there. I love the gig. And I go to my favorite restaurant... ‘ I can’t do that. First of all, I never even sound that way. That was a fake. With you, I’m going to go on the internet every minute, when I hang up from here, to see that you’re alive. My goal is to see that you don’t die before I close Sunday night.

PCC:
That is so noble.

LEWIS:
Well, it is. Hey, I’ve done everything. Really, I have done... I was telling someone yesterday, probably an agent or a manager, I wanted something done ... I said, ‘Look, I’ve done this for 40 year... this is not a boast. I don’t boast, but I’ve hung out in the Oval Office with Clinton, I hang out with The Stones. I’ve met every f--kin’ icon I ever admired as a young kid. Jonathan is so very much alive. And we’re like best friends. We speak every day for the last five years. I go visit. Mel Brooks. All of them. I sold out Carnegie Hall. This is just Ghandi-esque of me.

PCC:
[Laughs]

LEWIS:
But now I’m transcending it. Now I don’t even care about the gig as much as a journalist’s peace of mind. I’m going to be worried about you. And I don’t even know you that well. I mean, we’ve spoken a few times. I’m going to have to go on line. I’m going to have to get a police caricature. ‘I think he looks like this, based on some statements he made.’ And now you probably look like Gumby with a black hood over yourself.

PCC:
Well, you see, you should be doing self-help books.

LEWIS:
I did write a self-help... I wrote a book about eight or nine years ago, which was based on... it was sort of a dyslexic self-help book. It was like, ‘Here’s how screwed-up I am. Just go the other direction.’

But I will say this, though. I will say one positive thing about myself. But since you’ve been hogging this entire interview with your depression...

PCC:
[Laughs]

LEWIS:
... Is that ‘Curb Your Enthusiasm’ now is on the TV Guide Network. In the fall, we’ll be on 19 other syndicated networks. I don’t get a big taste out of this. And it’s fine with me. I’m just thrilled that billions of people... I had no idea how worldwide this is, because of the DVDs. I mean, I think I’m big in North Korea now.

The cool thing about this, honestly, is after 40 years... and even though Larry David, L.D., spread this out over a decade, and we’re just starting the eighth year... But I now walk down the streets and people.... 16-year-olds, people who were like four or five when ‘Curb’ started, are fans. And that doesn’t happen very often, particularly to someone like myself, who never gave up stand-up, but even went into it with more passion, more furiously than ever, which I have.

I’ve never enjoyed the art form more than I have the last few years. And it’s clearly because there are that many more millions of people that know who I am... and there’s more pressure on me. And I love pressure. My parents... everyone in my family was so judgmental. It’s ironic that I chose a job where, every night, like ‘I’m a piece of crap. Judge me. Hi, how are you?’ And try to win their affection. I’m certain that’s one of the reasons I became a comedian. But now, I’ve had enough success to feel confident enough that I can wail about my dysfunction and that people will get something out of it.

And hopefully they will in San Francisco... assuming I’m not at your funeral. This is the thing that’s bugging me more than anything.

PCC:
[Laughs] So the positive audience reactions actually allay the low self-esteem issues?

LEWIS:
No, no. It just, it makes the low self-esteem more valuable. It’s just basically like, my stock went up. My low self-esteem stock has gone through the roof. I mean, it was hovering for a while and then ‘Curb’ came and after it caught on, all of a sudden, people started buying more stocks in me again. And now, I’m a blue chip nut. [Laughs] I laughed, but that was a stupid thing. I’m now doing cornball jokes, just so you can take that gun away from your head.

PCC:
[Laughs] Thank you. Were you surprised by the return of ‘Curb’ for another season?

LEWIS:
Let me put it to you this way. I know Larry David. I know him since I’m 12. We met and we hated one another. Then we met again 13 years after, not knowing that we were the same guys who had gone to this sports camp together. It was a billion-to-one shot. But he is really... He’s like... I know him half a century, since I’m a little boy. And I remember two years ago, I was in New York, doing a gig, and we went out for breakfast. And he was starring in one of Woody’s movies. [“Whatever Works”]

Now, as young comedians, that would never have been on our plate, that that would happen. So I was excited... Well, I don’t know how he is...I mean, I met him at his hotel and I said, ‘I’m not going to ask him one thing about Woody, see what happens.’ And he doesn’t mention the film, okay? And the brunch - a brunch, you know, with all the things you open up, ‘Oh, look, a half an elk! Want some deer with some potatoes, honey?’ Families. When a brunch like that lasts five minutes, you know he’s not comfortable in those settings, okay?

And a few months ago, he said, ‘Gee, I haven’t see you in a while.’ This is after I guess he made... I never asked him whether the show’s coming back. I find out. So I e-mail him and I said, ‘Hey, I went online... and I saw some site out of Algeria... that you might be thinking...’ I wasn’t lying. There was some kind of weird European news service that said, ‘Larry David’s thinking of coming back.’ And he would have known it. He just doesn’t tell me. And I don’t ask him... which is cool. He likes it that way. I find out eventually how many shows I’m in. I have no clue what the arc is. And I won’t know what I’m doing until, if I’m lucky, the day of or the day before. Well, the day of, I have to, at least before they say, ‘Action.’

But like a few months ago, he said he wanted to go to dinner. He hadn’t seen me in about a year, I think. I mean, we were best of friends. But, you know, L.A. is also a crummy place for friendships, because everything is so far away. You get invitations for parties - R.S.V.P. - it’s like a year from Tuesday. And then they give you maps and Google Search. If it’s some of these show biz parties, people say, ‘If you have a helicopter... ‘ Helicopter?!... I know I’m rambling now... just to save you from taking your life.

PCC:
[Laughs]

LEWIS:
When you’re a celebrity... and I am. But I have no idea... it means nothing to me . But I am. It’s like when tour buses are out in Hollywood, ‘Richard!’ Families are waving. And all I’m doing is trying to buy an enema at a drug store. You’re a celebrity. Otherwise, I would just be trying to buy a Fleet enema and go home. But now I have to buy a Fleet enema and wave to people when I’m cramped. It’s not fun. It’s not all it’s cut out to be. Really. ‘I’m going to the drug store, Honey. I need to buy a Fleet enema... I’ll be home... you’d better leave the house for about an hour.’ But no, I’ve got to wave, sign autographs. You know? It’s a nightmare.

So anyways, Larry, I met him at this posh restaurant, which he wanted to go to. I’d been to this place. And it was Chinese. I said, ‘What time do you want to meet?’ Literally... none of this is made up, because he’s pretty eccentric. He said, ‘4:30.’ I said, ‘I just had lunch. I’m not meeting you in an hour-and-a-half for dinner.’ And then I had to negotiate a time... for an hour. And I got it up to 5:45. I went, ‘They’re not even ready to... ‘ ‘Yeah, yeah, they’ll be ready.’

So I get there at 5:30, purposely, to give the maitre d’ my credit card, because, look, I can afford to treat him... Just because he has funny money doesn’t mean he has to always treat. And he does a lot. So maybe it was an ego thing. I got there and I said, ‘Hey, listen, just give me the check, please.’ It’s not a big deal. It’s not like I’m paying for a wedding. I never will. I just have little cloth puppets. One’s in rehab. And one’s in jail. It doesn’t matter.

So I get to the restaurant... by the way, I’m just doing this rant to get you to rethink your suicide attempt. But I get there, honestly, he’s late. I give the maitre d’ my credit card. He comes a half-hour late. Doesn’t apologize. I’m already in a bad mood. And I go, ‘Let’s get a menu.’ He goes, ‘Don’t embarrass me.’ I go, ‘I what do mean, embarrass you?’ He said, ‘No, the chef likes to bring out what he likes.’ I went, ‘I don’t care what the chef likes!’ I said, ‘Remember we used to go the Chinese restaurant, we’d all buy one or two things and then share?’ ‘No, no, let the chef bring out... I know the guy...’ I go ‘Fine.’

They bring out like 18 entrees on a Lazy... one of these turntable things, Lazy Susan, whatever they’re called... and I said, ‘Who’s going to eat all this stuff?’ And we don’t even start eating it. And we’re only there about three minutes. And his cell rings. And it’s Steve Martin, the comedian. And he says, ‘Oh, my God, sorry!’ Closes the cell. Gets up, without an apology, goes, ‘Poker night. I forgot.’ And leaves. Leaves me with 20 entrees, about a $720 bill.

I leave pretty fast. And then he calls me. Him and Martin, Steve, call me. I have my speaker on. Begging me to come and play poker. Now, first of all, I really missed Larry and not having a chance to have an hour dinner with him, that’s really... I didn’t feel like playing poker. Two, I don’t play poker that often. I don’t even know how to play that well. Can you imagine? I had like $70 in my wallet. Going to play with Larry David and Steve Martin? It’d be like ‘The Cincinnati Kid.’ ‘That’s 10 grand.’ ‘Yeah.’ ‘You little baby.’ And ‘A hundred grand.’ I would have needed Monopoly money.

The whole thing was a nightmare. So, to answer your question, no. I don’t ask him anything. I show up on set and the only get-even I have... and I love the guy, I have his back. He knows it. He’s got mine. But the only get-even I have is when there’s actors on the set who have never done the show, like guest stars or something, I walk over purposely, so the new person who’s there just for one day will hear me say the worst, the most horrific rumors that I make up about him and what he did, I can’t believe he did this... a gun? Who knew you had a gun? But I really act. I should get Emmys for this. I act. And he starts laughing. And just to see the faces of these actors... I mean, I’m exploiting these actors, unfortunately. But there’s nothing I can do to get even with this guy.

And there’s nothing to get even with. He really gave me a second breath, like 12 years ago. I love the guy. The guy’s a genius. And it couldn’t have happened to a more worthy guy, because he’s a true artist. I mean, here’s a guy who was a brilliant stand-up, who never did the traditional route, like all of us wanted, most of us, anyway. I wanted to go on the road. I wanted to open up for superstars. Then I wanted to headline. Then I wanted to do Carnegie Hall. And I wanted to do specials. And all the rest. I’ve done all of that.

And he never got out of the gate, because an audience member would talk or whisper, he’d walk off. He was so much about the craft, he didn’t think audiences were part of the mix. It was insane. It’s pretty insane. But that’s what happened with him. Fortunately, Seinfeld knew that he had gold. And they were a great team.

But, interestingly enough, this show is like, to me, Seinfeld Unplugged and has been for a long time. It’s the rawest sitcom I’ve ever seen. Not to mention, there’s no script, which is a dream come true for a comedian, for sure. It’s funny to see some of the actors come on, the first day. Ted Danson said something really interesting to me once - he’s a really nice guy -He said, ‘You watch a really strong episode of ‘Curb Your Enthusiasm,’ really strong episode and then you watch like the most well written sitcom right after it, that other show will seem so unnatural and almost phony.’ I know what he meant. And in a lot of ways, it’s true, because that art form the way he’s done the show, I think it really worked out.

A few people probably know this. It’s sort of ‘Inside Baseball,’ but a couple years ago, I mean he’s won a Lifetime Achievement Award from The Writers Guild and everything, but one year, he won Best Writer for a situation comedy and there are no scripts. So that shows how important every frame is, from the first frame to the last frame, in 10 episodes. Because if they don’t match up, from the right exposition standpoint, the show would just crumble. It wouldn’t have lasted more than a month.

That’s why writing these outlines takes him so long. They’re only about seven or eight pages, but writing the stories are so intense and so difficult. That’s why he takes so long, coming up with an idea of whether he wants to do it again. Plus he doesn’t need the bread. But I think he likes to see himself on billboards. And I don’t blame him.

Because here’s a guy who never followed through on stand-up, because of his allergy to audiences. And now he’s really able to show the people who he was as a comedian. And he really was incredible.

My goal really is just to show up. In fact, I’ve had many fights with my wife... and we have a pretty good marriage... but when I come back - and she adores Larry - but she says, ‘How did it go?’ I go, ‘What do you mean, how did it go? I went there. I was me. He was him. We had a fight. I’m home. I have makeup on. I have to take a shower. And he’s going to edit it. I don’t know what’s going to happen.’ And I don’t. And it’s the most surreal gig I’ve ever had. I literally show up as me. He’s him. He tells me what the exposition is - ‘Action!’ And we start screaming and yelling. And we would have done the same screaming and yelling in real life. Do I deserve an Emmy nomination for this?

PCC:
Absolutely. No one could play you better.

LEWIS:
Well, I don’t think it’s going to happen. Not that I would care. Well, I mean, it would be... I don’t know if they give Emmys to people... It’s not easy playing yourself, by the way. I mean, forget about an Emmy nomination. I was joking about that. But it really isn’t easy playing yourself on ‘Action!’ and making it look real. Sometimes it’s easier hiding... If I was the Hunchback of Notre Dame, and I got the posture for the role, by the way. That might be my swan s... my limelight, that might be it. The Hunchback of Notre Dame... a funny version.

PCC:
A Jewish version.

LEWIS:
Yeah, yeah. He could be Jewish. Fine.

PCC:
No?

LEWIS:
Yeah. So, you’re sounding a little better.

PCC:
Yes, you’re working your magic.

LEWIS:
[Laughs]

PCC:
You sound so upbeat.

LEWIS:
No, no, because I was... a recovering drug addict, alcoholic... I’ve been to dark places. And I called you and I hear... ‘I... uhhhhh-uhhhhh...’ It was like calling my family.

PCC:
You're making me feel so guilty!

LEWIS:
No! Listen, you’re a human being. You’re a writer. Writers have deadlines. It’s a nightmare! It wasn’t a big deal to call you. Plus you’re promoting an engagement in one of the greatest cities in the world, in one of my favorite clubs in the world. But I didn’t expect to have someone with suicidal thoughts talking to me. I was like a 9-... like an emergency hotline. My wife, in college was on a suicide hotline and she told me some stories. And believe it or not, I put some of those tricks out on this phone call, unbeknownst to you.

PCC:
[Laughs]

LEWIS:
I just walked you off the ledge, my friend.

PCC:
Does your wife’s background in suicide prevention help her deal with you?

LEWIS:
No, unfortunately, I’m going to have a downer after I hang up. Because, helping other people, in the moment, like on stage, I’m full of life. After the show, I want to jump into just some hot oil. That cliché has come true. Unfortunately, whatever makes up an artist and someone who performs live, for me at least, it’s true, on that stage, it is like I’m in a vacuum, man. It is pretty much the happiest I am... for most of my life. And I’m not sure why. I don’t go to therapy anymore. I make a pit stop once a year, just to see if my therapist is all right. That’s the kind of guy I am. She gave 19 years of her life to me. I ruined this woman.

PCC:
And the woman you’re currently ruining, your wife, is she...

LEWIS:
No, I think she’s an extraterrestrial. There’s no other explanation. She has great friends. She’s from Minnesota, number one. So, you know, she’s a Jewish woman from Minnesota.

PCC:
I didn’t know there were any.

LEWIS:
Yes, There are plenty. They just get very conflicted. I know it’s a stereotype and I don’t care. She doesn’t know whether to fish or go to Barney’s and buy, because the sale is ending at noon.

But we had... we did have... we’re trying to unload it... We have this cabin, 90 miles outside of Hollywood where we live. And I went there once. And I took a... I walked with her once... and I saw a small, but yet, a snake... Okay? And it was... I said, ‘Look, it wasn’t my idea to have a cabin... ‘ And then I kicked a rock and an insect I couldn’t recognize... It’s in the mountains... ‘I’m never leaving the cabin. Are you happy about this investment.’ So she’d go hiking. We had no friends up there. I go, ‘We’re to be like the Donner party. This is frightening!’ I said I’ll only go with you down to the... they had like one little store to buy like nuts and raisins.

This is a joke! I cannot wait to sell this thing. I’m haunted by it, even, I live in Hollywood. And I dream of the cabin. You know what it reminds me of? That view, that poster of ‘Psycho.’

PCC:
Up on the hill?

LEWIS:
That’s me, looking up at the cabin. I should have made... I might, before we sell it, do a picture and just mimic that shot. I actually, because Jamie Lee’s mom [The mother of Lewis’ “Anything But Love” compatriot, Jamie Lee Curtis, is ‘Psycho’ star Janet Leigh] gave me a poster from the theatre. One of those, I forget, poster cards, billboard cards, from the theatre...I forget the real name of it.

PCC:
Lobby cards?

LEWIS:
Lobby cards. Right. Thanks. Hey, you’re comin’ back, pal!

PCC:
[Laughs]

LEWIS:
That was a trick, by the way. I knew what a lobby card was. I’ve got some from Buster Keaton’s movies. You schmuck, I f--kin’ hoodwinked you. You fell for that. Oh, man!

PCC:
[Laughs] That makes me even more depressed.

LEWIS:
Oh, no. Don’t say that to me. You know, this movie, I’m looking at this ad... ‘Inception’ How far can it go? You know, I think about, so I wonder, maybe I can stop all this and write the darkest, craziest, like all of a sudden, a finger becomes a squid. And the squid is God. And then God is hell. And then hell is Jesus. And then Jesus becomes your sock. It’s just... These stories are so ridiculous. I mean, it’s just unbearable.

PCC:
Interesting mindset.

LEWIS:
No, I just suckered you into this. I was playing with you, man. You know...

PCC:
Toying with my emotions...

LEWIS:
No, I wasn’t playing with your feelings. I was just trying to save you. But I used ev... I was desperate in the beginning. And I said, ‘I’m going to get this guy to laugh, if it kills me. That’s the kind of guy I am. You’re not even family.

PCC:
That’s kind of your philosophy of life, actually, isn’t it?

LEWIS:
Yes it is, actually. If you can work that into a decent quote, I’ll put it on the website.

PCC:
You’re the Mother Theresa of comics.

LEWIS:
Ab.. Well, I actually feel more... I mean, If you want to make me bisexual... or transsexual. I don’t even know the difference anymore. I’m so confused.

PCC:
Are you saying that Mother Theresa was a man?

LEWIS:
No, no. Mother Theresa’s a woman, but I’m straight and I’m a guy. I prefer to be called maybe ‘The Gandhi of Comedy.’

PCC:
[Laughing] Okay, I’m sorry.

LEWIS:
... Only because... I mean... Believe me, I’m a liberal... but I’m just saying. I’m not homophobic. But I would prefer to be... you know... Why make me a woman... for no reason? If I wanted to be a woman, I would... I know some people who have become women. It’s pretty freaky.

PCC:
It must be hard to know how to react.

LEWIS:
Well, I don’t see them. They live out of my comfort zone.

PCC:
[Laughing] Yeah.

LEWIS:
Well, no, I’m happy for them. But I’ve made up some excuses I’m not happy about. ‘I can’t, my kid’s going to graduate.’ I just can’t show up and make believe that John, who is now Jeanine, and is wearing a gown...It’s a big step to change your gender. And I know why... And I’m proud of these men and women... I don’t even know what they’re called anymore. I’m so confused by the whole deal. I mean, I was confused... just sexually, straight, heterosexual sex, I get confused.

So, you know, you can imagine... He had a breast... now it’s a testicle... but it might be a vagina... It’s just too much. It’s too much for me.

PCC:
[Laughing] But you have always been who you are.

LEWIS:
What does that mean? That’s a putdown!

PCC:
No! You’ve had the courage to not take on an image. You’ve always been who you are.

LEWIS:
This is true. I absolutely am the same on stage as off. And, for some reason, if that wasn’t going to work, I would never have done this. That was my only reason for doing this... to find some compassion from strangers... Oh, Jesus, how sad. How sad! Lassie come home!

PCC:
[Laughing] No, it was more like Tennessee Williams, wasn’t it?

LEWIS:
Yeah, no, it is. I never saw ‘Lassie Come Home.’ It’s more like, actually, what’s his name? The greatest playwright ever...

PCC:
Arthur Miller?

LEWIS:
No, no.

PCC:
Wasn't he the greatest playwright ever?

LEWIS:
No way. It’s the guy who changed playwrights forev... Come on, ‘Iceman Cometh.’

PCC:
Oh, Eugene O’Neill.

LEWIS:
Oh, Eugene O’Neill. My wife and I, we went on this run. We watched like four or five that are on DVD, like in a week... It was unbeara... It was incredible! There was a mist... of fog... and the favorite one... the family... it was the one he didn’t even want to have out... until he died... it was basically, totally autobiog... Anyway, I think he’s considered the greatest playwright. I mean, he changed... It was like from [Sings the George M. Cohan tune] ‘Over there!’ From ‘Yankee Doodle Dandy’ to like [monotone] ‘I’m shooting more morphine.. and I’m going to kill Dad.’ I mean, that’s a big leap.

I love Cassavetes and Bergman. My film library is extraordinarily dark. And I really need to watch really dark movies to get myself into a good mood.

PCC:
[Laughing[ But I thought you also watched like Jerry Lewis.

LEWIS:
Well, I watched Jerry Lewis, because a friend of mine had his kid over here and I put on, on the YouTube, some stuff from him, because he loves Jerry Lewis. It really was amazing. I know Jerry Lewis. He’s been very nice to me. And flattering. And I remember loving him as a kid. And I’m watching him with this eight-year-old boy, screaming, out of his mind, like could not believe that he’s seeing something so funny. It’s quite a gift.

I mean, when they start comparing his filmmaking to like more serious type comedies, it’s apples and oranges. I mean, to make a four or five-year-old scream and laugh, and then parents, as well, I mean, not too many people have been able to... like Chaplin. I mean, I know he’s been reamed in America.

But... it was really fun. I rarely have children over at my house. My house, which I’ve had for about 22 years, it’s called The Museum, because it has collections everywhere. Everything in the arts. And there’s a lot of sharp-edged antiques and furniture and stuff, so children are not allowed... [Laughs]

Once a former manager brought his baby over here. It’s three stories and it’s narrow. A dangerous house, if you don’t know every nook and cranny. And the kid was crying when he saw all the stimuli all over the place. It scared him. And my former manager said, ‘I gotta get outta here, The kid’s going crazy.’ He said, ‘Do you have anything to play... ‘ He didn’t bring any toys. And I had no toys, so I gave him one of my blood pressure pumps.

PCC:
[Laughs]

LEWIS:
That worked. And he almost hung himself, because his head’s so small. he put his head in and I... ‘Get his head out of it!’ He was only about three inches long. It was a whole... It was a nightmare. So how are you doing?

PCC:
So you’re a hoarder, is that what you’re saying?

LEWIS:
No, I was a hoarder. And I de-hoarded. I deconstructed the house about seven months ago and took about 80 percent out of it...

PCC:
How do you do that? That would be too traumatic for me.

LEWIS:
You know what? I’ll be honest with you. I wasn’t a hoarder like those famous two brothers in Harlem, in New York. But I did hoard. And what I did do, when my wife was away, visiting family, on a few extended trips, I went through my house and, without looking, just knowing what was important to me, what I knew I needed, my work, my writing, the computer stuff, stuff that was obviously of value. I put everything in hundreds and hundreds of waste paper bags, big garbage bags.

At the time, I had a leak in my house... and I had these guys who were pretty strong... I couldn’t lift these things... my back... everything’s all gone now. So I threw everything away, in the dump, and I don’t even know what it is. Because, I said, ‘If I don’t miss it now, if I don’t even know it’s here... who cares?’

And I’ll tell you, man. It was one of the most cathartic things I’ve ever done in my life. It was unbelievable to get rid of this crap. It’s cliché, but, man, I’m 62, man, and I had a lot of things and a lot of stuff, as Carlin used to say - and will always say on tape and DVD - and it really is just stuff. And it was really great to get rid of it.

PCC:
Even your collectibles?

LEWIS:
I’m sure I threw away a lot, some collectibles, because... you can imagine, a thousand drawers... tons of stuff... If I looked at everything, I never would have done it. I would have... ‘Oh, gee, maybe I should keep this.’ Or maybe I should send it to you, because you’ll get depressed again. A picture of me and Keith Richards, maybe you’ll like it. I’ll get Keith to sign it. I would have got hung up, because I’m obsessed and compulsive. It would have been a nightmare. I probably would have killed myself. So I just threw everything out blindly. I saved everything from when I first went through the house and said, ‘This isn’t going.’ And everything else went. And I gave a lot to charity. My wife and I gave a lot of the stuff to charity. When my wife came home, she was shocked. Couldn’t believe it.

You know what really bummed me out? There was so much stuff... I collect stuff... really interesting stuff, too. I’m a serious collector. But I would cover a lot of really cool pieces of furniture. Like, you know, Rolling Stone magazines with Jimi on it and Joplin. Really cool stuff. But you couldn’t even recognize the table it was on. I covered great furniture with really cool other stuff. And I would cover that cool stuff with other stuff. It was a joke. Obviously, I had a lot of psychological problems, doing this.

So when my wife came back, I went just the other way. I took everything away. I hid everything that was out. It was like naked. Like a baby. Like a little baby house. My wife said, ‘Where is everything?’ It was funny. She said, ‘You’ve got to put something out!’ I said, ‘No, because I went the other way, because, obviously, emotionally I have a lot of problems.’ So I went from everything to be seen to ‘I want to see nothing.’ Like that vision of John and Yoko playing a white piano in a white living room with nothing on the walls. That’s what my goal was. So when my wife came home, she freaked. She started putting things out. I said, ‘Don’t put a fork on the table. We don’t need a fork.’ I almost had a breakdown.

PCC:
Well, it is true that a lot of people... you’ve been sober like 16 years?

LEWIS:
Yeah, almost, in a couple weeks.

PCC:
Well, a lot of us with addictive personalities, once we get quit the substance type things, become obsessive about healthful things, like exercise or macrobiotics or religion or whatever...

LEWIS:
Well, those three, you struck out on with me. I’m out. I’m out of the batter’s box. I’m a spiritual guy. There’s no way I can’t be spiritual, sitting in this house, in the Hollywood hills, looking at the heavens, spinning around in infinity, thinking that there’s something at least mystical or magical. The religious stuff... it’s not going to happen... because I don’t think it’s meant to be... it’s like the extraterrestrials. Why the hell... they don’t owe us a visit. You know? And if there’s a God, he didn’t have to come down here and say, ‘Hey, I exist. All right, guys? I gotta go back up there, man. I got shit to do.’ They don’t owe us a visit. But it would help me, if one of them was on, you know, Larry King or something.

PCC:
Well, they could come down for rubbernecking. Watch the disaster.

LEWIS:
For rubbernecking. That’s a great word.

PCC:
Thank you.

LEWIS:
Watching the disaster? Armageddon, you mean?

PCC:
I mean just the disastrous state we’re in right now.

LEWIS:
Rubbernecking. You know, I’m a wordsmith of sorts and I don’t think I’ve ever used that in an essay or anything. I’m very jealous. What’s the exact definition? Is it in the Oxford dictionary?

PCC:
Yeah, I’m sure it must be.

LEWIS:
Is there a hyphen?

PCC:
I don’t think so. But I’m bad with hyphens. I usually put them in when they don’t belong.

LEWIS:
I know. I heard about that. That’s one of your obsessions.

PCC:
[Laughs] Yeah, Richard-hyphen-Lewis

LEWIS:
[Laughs] It’s Richard Phillip Lewis, if you want to know. No, but rubbernecking, is that a metaphor? For really looking at it intensely?

PCC:
It’s like, if you turn and gawk, like as you pass an accident on the highway...

LEWIS:
That’s what I was going to say. But there’s another word for those guys.

PCC:
Assholes?

LEWIS:
Yeah. No, other than assholes. You say, ‘Beware, there’s a lot of lookie loos.’

PCC:
That’s a very cute and quaint term.

LEWIS:
It is. I never use it in public. This is on the phone. I was jealous of rubbernecking and I wanted to come up with something close. The only thing I could think of was ‘lookie loos.’

PCC:
Lookie loos, I think, may not be in the dictionary.

LEWIS:
Really? Well, you know, I’m in the Yale Book of Quotations.

PCC:
I was going to congratulate you. Because I knew that Bartlett’s had rejected your claim as the originator of ‘... from hell,’ but I just heard about the Yale thing.

LEWIS:
Well, I was so aggravated about the Bartlett’s thing.

PCC:
As well you should be.

LEWIS:
I was furious. There’s a brilliant writer. And he wrote an article once on ‘Curb.’ And it turned out that his uncle was on the board of Bartlett’s at the time. And we were joking about this. This was years ago. And I said, ‘You know, that was an unintentional hook in the ‘70s. And then it became used and abused. People stole it. And commercials... I couldn’t take it anymore. And his uncle, I believe, the writer’s uncle, said, ‘I know Richard Lewis said it all the time, but, you know, my granddaughter came home from college a couple years ago and said, ‘It was the semester from hell.’ Oh, well, what does that mean? She’s 18. I was like 53. I’d said it in my thirties. She heard it!

So, luckily, Yale... They didn’t really write it perfectly, though, unfortunately, as grateful as I am... because it really bugged me. comics stealing everything. People are just so unethical in this field. It’s just despicable. That’s the biggest heartbreak about this world I’m in, the stand-up, is that people are just ruthless.

In fact, there’s a really cool book out now, called ‘I’m Dying Up Here.’ They might even make a movie out of it. It’s about the comedy scene in the ‘70s. It’s a really good read. And it addresses how hard it was to make it and then to stick to it, with all the drugs and all that sex. It was like, basically, rock ‘n’ roll time in the ‘70s. But this stealing, it just sucks. And it really sucks more for the younger comic who really came up with... Look, it’s very easy to come up with similar premises, obviously, and even, sometimes, punch lines, right on the money. But when you overtly take something and then some young kid who can’t do it anymore, a young comedian, that really sucks. And that happens all the time.

But the whole talk show landscape has changed so much now. I’m glad I came along when I did. I mean, I did 60 or 70 Lettermans in the ‘80s, early ‘90s. That’s unheard of now, to do that kind of thing. I mean, Dave actually said, ‘Come on as often as you want.’ And I did.

PCC:
Not many comedians could rely on a constant flow of funny ideas.

LEWIS:
Well, you know... it’s boring... and I have a feeling you’re sinking back into your death thing...

PCC:
[Laughs] No.

LEWIS:
And my energy level now is... I mean, there’s enough here for a coffee table book. And what are you going to use? ‘Lewis opens Thursday, closes Sunday. There are restaurants near the gig.’ Really, after all this shit, saving your life... and all of this gold, it’ll be a paragraph!

PCC:
But what a paragraph!

LEWIS:
[Laughs] Boy, I’ll be rubbernecking to see that! And all those lookie-loos... It’s going to cause a lot of accidents by the newsstand... I’m not going to finish the thought. I got so disgusted with who I am, all of a sudden.

Can you imagine, first of all, hating yourself, being an alcoholic, albeit in recovery today, and then talking about yourself non-stop since 1970? It’s a joke! No wonder my wife has a four-minute limit!

PCC:
But your own comedy must be a form of therapy for you.

LEWIS:
It is. It is when people laugh. And then I know that there was some meaning, some meaning to what this was all about for me. It really has given me meaning. And I never preach about recovery or alcoholism at all. All I do say is, ‘If you’re hammered, try not to drive.’ It’s unbelievable, unbearable that I did it. And I was lucky I didn’t kill anybody.

But helping other people who are absolutely going down and seeing them actually turn their lives around, those two things are astonishing gifts. And actually, that’s the greatest gift right now. I don’t preach about it. But people helped me want to get back on track. And when you see it with friends, when you really, really try to help and they actually get it and they realize, ‘All right, I’ve been there, done it. But I’m dead, if I don’t change,’ and they change, it’s really great.

God, I’m just looking at Cameron Diaz on the commercial. I saw her a couple weeks ago in Chateau Marmont. I did her first ‘Tonight Show,’ when she did ‘The Mask.’ And I was such a sex addict... not a sex addict, but an affection... Oh, she’s plugging a movie with Tom Cruise. Ah, but, she’s so tall... in heels... she was so intimidating... I don’t know if I would have left my usual note with someone like her... which was, ‘I hope you’re married and happy, but if you’re not... And I’d have my number on it. And it would be so sleazy.

That’s how I picked up my wife. That same note. At a Ringo Starr party, if I can name-drop. And she saved the note. And she gave it to me for our first anniversary, this sleazy note. But when I saw Cameron Diaz, I went over to her. It’s just, I knew I would get praise. I needed praise, because I... I said, ‘Hey, you made me really funny on that ‘Tonight Show.’ She’s like, ‘Oh, you don’t need anybody’s help.’ I knew she’d say that. I felt so guilty afterwards. That’s how needy I am.

And now, I think we’re done. This is how it started. This is like ‘Siddhartha.’ We’ve run around the lake already. We bumped into each other here. Now I’m f--cked up! And you’re going to have a good day. You’re the most selfish journalist I’ve ever met!

PCC:
Laughs

LEWIS:
Feign depression. Make me put on a f--kin’ show for 55 minutes for free. For a paragraph. Now I’m suicidal. I’d better be alive for that show. Now I’m going to be on fire at that nightclub. And I owe it all to you... for abusing me.

PCC:
We do plan to come up to see you.

LEWIS:
Really?

PCC:
But we’ve tried before and we have like the Richard Lewis curse, actually, because every time we plan to catch your set, one of us gets ill or the car breaks down or...

LEWIS:
The Richard Lewis curse! Man, look what you’ve put in my head for tonight!

PCC:
[Laughs] It doesn’t affect you.

LEWIS:
Oh, yes it does! It’s already ‘Amityville Horror!’ Oh, God. Look, I’m not gonna stroke you. I don’t give a f--k what you write about now. You’ve f--ked up my dreams tonight.

Well listen, if you don’t make it, thank your for the time, as usual. You’re a very bright, funny guy and good writer and all the rest. But you’ve used and abused me today, in a way... I’ve never seen anything like it.

PCC:
And now, again, I feel so guilty.

LEWIS:
All right, I’ve got to lie down.

PCC:
Take care and we’ll see you up here.

LEWIS:
You, too, buddy. I hope I’ve helped.

BONUS
More Pain With Richard Lewis - Our 2008 Feature Story

Misery loves company. Company loves to laugh. So it makes sense that Richard Lewis is among the most beloved comedians of his time.

You don’t have to be the Marquis de Sade to enjoy another’s suffering. When Lewis talks about his pain, it’s universally appealing. Like a rock guitar god’s inspired riffs, his spontaneous bursts of humor dazzle.

He doesn’t hesitate to strip himself emotionally bare - on stage and in his wonderfully moving, amusing memoir, “The Other Great Depression.”

Just as revealing is the new documentary DVD, “Richard Lewis Naked.” Created by his longtime publicist/confidante Michelle Mourges Marx, the entertaining and involving film allows viewers to sneak along on the comedian’s stress-packed book tour. Lewis is unwaveringly candid.

“If you have a dark past and were abused emotionally, you’ve got to deal with it,” Lewis told us “You can’t be in denial.

“At 23, I went on stage, because I felt misunderstood and wanted people to laugh at all the crap I thought I was victimized by, to validate me.

Known as the Prince of Pain, Lewis is now 60. He says sobriety has benefited his art. “I was able to turn the light on me. Once I realized I was a screwball, it opened up a Pandora’s box of material. I can go on stage and have the time of my life putting myself down. It’s more fun shredding myself than blaming other people.”

He encouraged the publication of a new edition of “The Great Depression.” Lewis hears from readers who confronted their own addictions after reading the book. He’d like to reach the new generation of fans who discovered him on “Curb Your Enthusiasm.”

“Maybe I could help some of the addicts among them. To help someone else help themselves is the greatest gift for me.”

The new edition’s afterword relates Lewis’ quest for illumination and self-improvement. “It dawned on me that there are a lot of reasons why I drank. Those were defects in character. I concluded that, for me, it would be an empty sobriety, unless I worked on those defects. I wanted to write that down.”

Lewis and his wife are on the board of urbanfarming.org, whose mission is to eradicate hunger. It’s one of many ways in which he nurtures his spiritual quest.

He also wanted to reprint the book to remind the public that, though young stars have bounced in and out of rehab recently, the process can work. “You don’t have to be sober for a day and then wind up naked on ‘TMZ’ in the back of a limo, drinking. There are other ways to go. Not that I would ever be naked in the back of a limo, not with my body at this point. It would be on some Yiddish porn cable.”

The one-time Lothario married for the first time three years ago. He met former music publisher Joyce Lapinsky at a Ringo Starr party.

“I guessed she was Italian and 33. She said, ‘Let’s nip this in the bud. I’m 42. I’m a Jew from Minnesota. So if that bugs you... And if children are a major thing...’ She was like reading my mind.”

Turns out, years before, a friend had tried to fix up Lapinsky with Lewis on the set of his hit sitcom “Anything But Love.” “She said, ‘No, he’s crazy. I’m not going out with him.’ I was an active drunk and drug addict then, so it wouldn’t have worked out anyway.”

The timing was right when they did meet. To buddy Bob Costas, Lewis declared, “I met the woman I’m going to marry.”

“I was able to commit to somebody finally. I met the right woman at the right time. There’s a lot of compromise in any relationship. But it’s easier to compromise at 60 than it is at 25.

“I’ve found peace and serenity. On stage, I still mine my bottomless pit of bad memories. In real life, I’m still crazy, but I’m far happier and more grateful than I’ve ever been. Marriage has a lot to do with that. We have a neurotic relationship that’s, 99 percent of the time, filled with laughter and love.”

Lewis has also found surrogate mother and father relationships - with Phyllis Diller and Jonathan Winters.

“My father died before I ever went on stage. My mother and I didn’t have a great relationship, to put it mildly. When I got ‘The Tonight Show’ for the first time, in the early ‘70s, I called her and said, ‘Mom, I’m on with Johnny!’ She said, ‘Who else is on?’

“Phyllis Diller and Jonathan Winters love me and I love them. They’ve taken me under their wing. It’s like a dream. They’re iconic figures in comedy, people I grew up watching. And I speak to them as parents, literally.”

Lewis, who has two TV projects in the works, speaks of his flaws, but works on them diligently. “As I de-fogged, year after year, I realized how obsessive-compulsive and anal-retentive I was.

“I went to therapy for 30-plus years. I hardly go now. I make little NASCAR pit stops on occasion. But I pretty much know the deal at this point. I’m still pretty loony. I just don’t medicate the problems anymore.”

BONUS #2

Our 2005 Interview With Richard Lewis

LEWIS:
I’ve gone four months shrinkless. Then I panicked and I broke down and called one of mine. At least it was the New York one, not the L.A. one. With the world in chaos, what’s the difference? I was doing so well on my own.

PCC:
Was that a record, four months?

LEWIS:
Absolutely, a record. But I had a little bit of a panic attack.

PCC:
With all your work in films, TV and the book world, is stand-up still the passion it once was for you?

LEWIS:
Here’s the thing... I’m sort of working the moment on stage, so it’s sort of like how I’m feeling today, kind of thing.

PCC:
On ‘Curb,’ you and Larry David have great chemistry.

LEWIS:
Larry David, who I know since I’m 12, just got an Emmy nomination for ‘Curb Your Enthusiasm,’ his HBO show, which I’ve been on for three years. So I’m really proud of that. I’ve done a lot of TV, but I’ve never had the opportunity to ad-lib on television, which, as most people know, is a pretty tight ship, the television sitcom, unless you’re lucky. So to work with Larry and to be able say my lines is too good to be true. That’s been a kick, man.

We actually met, Larry and I, when we were kids, at camp. And we were arch-rivals. I mean, I hated his guts. And he hated my guts. We fought. I mean I really hated the guy. He was a real jerk. He thought I was a jerk. And about 12 or 13 years later, when we were in our early twenties, starting, and I started about a year before him, as a comedian, we became great friends. We dug each other’s stuff.

One night, I looked at him, almost in like a surreal, Roman Polanski kind of mode and went, ‘I hate you I don’t connect to your soul, man.’ And he was laughing, but I really meant it. I looked in his eyes and I recognized something that scared the crap out of me. We sat down and just started goofing and retracing our childhood and we realized that we were the same kids who hated one another 13 years ago. We just went berserk. We almost went at each other’s throats. And on the show, we fight a lot. And that’s the kind of relationship we have anyway. We really love each other, but we’re able to scream and yell and mock each other and then, a second later, forget it. That’s a good relationship.

I just read something in the paper a while ago. It’s ironic that people who write spec scripts, and God knows, I did it, too, to get into sitcoms, ‘Curb Your Enthusiasm’ is like the number one script write to try and get on shows. The bizarre irony is that, there is no script for ‘Curb.’ It’s totally ad-libbed, although the stories are very tight. I guess it’s popular with the writers. And well it should be. It’s pretty hip, man.

PCC:
Is it strange playing yourself

LEWIS:
No, the only strange part about it, the upside is, I’m working with an old buddy and I’m working with a guy who I love as a stand-up and now has a chance to show what he’s made of as a performer, not just as the creator of ‘Seinfeld.’

The downside, as an actor, is that, when you play yourself, you can’t like, send a reel to Scorcese that readily and say, ‘Can I get the role as the serial killer?’ The upside is that it’s one of the most unique comedies around and, as an actor, if you do your homework as an actor, you’re supposed to know who you are, your history, where you come from, where you’re going and all that stuff. And I don’t have to do a bit of that, because we already we already have our history built in. In fact, there are many scenes that, literally, the day of, or even during, we’re having an argument about something that has nothing to do with the show. And it’ll wind up in the show. And it’s really surreal. The cameras are rolling, we’re fighting, we’re bringing up something from like 10 years ago that pissed us off. And we’ll keep it.

I call him ‘Citizen David.’ He’s allowed to edit anything he wants. I just have to keep my fingers crossed, praying. Before the show airs, I put on every religious artifact known to man. But he looks after me. I have no problems with him. So I’m really in a good mood about that.

It was fun for me, last year, to play, a show that I didn’t really know much about, on the WB, ‘7th Heaven,’ which has been on for like seven years. And it’s like their number one show. It’s a family show, but it’s unbelievably successful, all over the world. So the woman was a fan of mine. She wanted me to play a rabbi with a daughter who marries the star’s daughter, And the star is a reverend. So she called me to reprise the role. So I went from playing a rabbi to playing a psychotic... no I’m not psychotic.

I’ve been going up for some dramatic series. That’s the fun thing about the acting stuff. You can literally get a phone call. It’s funny, I went up for this one role, I won’t mention it, because, if I don’t get it, it’ll look stupid. And I don’t want to hex it. It was so depressed, this character. He was absolutely at the bottom. And when I got to the lot, my car exploded, literally, and it broke. And I had just gotten it fixed. I had to get it towed and get a rental. So by the time I got to the room to read, I was in such a state. I don’t know if I got the role, but I sort of became this guy. I think I kind of scared everybody. I was in such a bad mood.

PCC:
So it was extreme method?

LEWIS:
Total method.

PCC:
You gave an amazing performance in the film ‘Drunks.’

LEWIS:
Thank you. I haven’t gotten as many opportunities to do dramatic stuff. And that is something that knew about, heard about, growing up, loving comics, how a lot of comics do have chops, but they’re pigeonholed. It’s hard. It really is hard to break through. I’ve been a comic for 32 years, proud of it.

I was telling Lou Reed this a couple years ago at dinner. I was whining about not getting enough dramatic opportunities. And he was laughing. To make Lou laugh is like making Edgar Allen Poe laugh. He’s become really a good friend. He’s a really cool guy. A brilliant guy. He’s a Hall of Fame poet-rocker. And he’s telling me, ‘Get over it, man. You’ve been a comic your whole life. Everything else is gravy.’ And he says, ‘I’m going to be remembered for one thing, the chorus of a song, ‘And the colored girls go, ‘doo-doo-doo.’ Suddenly he’s mocking me.

It was great. It was in this restaurant in Tribeca. He’s such a cool guy, but I looked around and it was like the really hot restaurant and nobody was in the restaurant, but Lou and me. I thought it was like a scene from ‘The Godfather.’ That was the first time we had met, a few years ago. I had some creative ideas about collaborating, some of my essays with some of his music.

Anyway, the stand-up, I write every day. Not always a million things. But I always have a pad with me. So, every two or three months, I would basically have a new hour that I liked. I’m not boasting. But it’s pretty unheard of. And the only reason I could do it, was because I brought a piece of paper, which was about three-feet long, on stage, and I’d put it on a table.

Carnegie Hall, when I did it, I had six of them, on a grand piano. I did almost three hours. But what happened, the last couple of years, I decided I’d be much freer, as a performer, if I just walked on stage, plus it wouldn’t be a pain in the ass, every venue that I would go to, I would have to make sure there was a table. I remember once, some teamsters lifting up this huge piano in Vegas. They said, ‘Rich, we never knew you played.’ I said, ‘No, no, it’s for this paper.’ They almost killed me.

So I don’t think I’ve ever performed better. But I have to spend really hundreds of years, scrawling on my laptop, everywhere I go, and just hope I remember 15 or 20 minutes of the stuff, because I just don’t bring the sheet up anymore. And quite frankly, even though I ad-lib about a third of every show I do, even if I’m doing a riff that I’ve been doing for a couple of weeks or months, I never do it the same way. And if the audience is going with it, then I just start adding and ad-libbing.

I still was so used to having two hours of new material and literally doing it, wherever I was, it could have been a concert hall or a nightclub, it’s a little frustrating. And every shrink, every person who ever meant anything to me, always said, ‘Rich, don’t you understand? People don’t know. This is like new material to everybody, even if they’ve seen you before.’

But it was just about my not wanting to be bored. So there’s pressure now when I go on stage. Now I’m more on edge than ever. I’m like on fire, on stage, for better or worse, because my brain is overloaded with about 40 minutes of stuff that now I can’t just peek down and look at. I have to try to recall it. So really, I’m a basket case on stage now.

Even though I’m eight years sober, I’ve never been more dysfunctional, as a comedian, which I think serves me well on stage. Seemingly, it has.

PCC:
Does the sobriety make the performing more challenging or does it enhance the performance?

LEWIS:
Early on, only the first month, I was scared. First of all, the majority of the times I performed, I was sober. Or if I had a drink, it was just a drink. I didn’t even have a buzz. My alcoholism hurt me in other aspects of my life. I had a love affair with stand-up. In fact, I even stopped for a couple of years, when my drinking got out of control, because I didn’t want to burn that bridge. And I didn’t.

I jested that I’m so clear-headed now that I despise myself even more. I am much more clear-headed now. There’s two things that make me a better performer as a sober person - one is that I have much more clarity on how screwed up I was and why I was screwed. And I also take responsibility. I used to use this metaphor in the ‘70s and ‘80s - things from hell. It was either a date from hell... whatever would torment me. It became part of the vernacular. And I actually tried to get it in Bartlett’s. I don’t know how much I paid my lawyer to do this. I must have been pretty high, asking him to do this. But I was pissed off. People were ripping me off. It was in advertising. This from hell. That from hell. I was on Letterman about 60 or 70 times over the course of about eight years. And even Dave used to say, ‘Oh, you went to a bar mitzvah from hell, huh?’ He would like finish the thought.

So Bartlett’s wrote back to my attorney. I’m paraphrasing, but it was hilarious. They said, ‘We realize that Mr. Lewis popularized this phrase, but we have on record, two co-eds in 1890, in Buffalo, walking around a pond, saying, ‘This is a semester from hell.’ These two young women. I got jacked out of it.

But you know what? Life is precious and I could care less at this point. But when I was drunk, I cared.

So anyways, part of getting sober, you do sort of take responsibility for things that you might have done that were pretty embarrassing. And I did plenty. It opened up a whole other side. Like I was the date from hell. I was the son from hell. It wasn’t just my parents. It wasn’t just the women I had gone out with. And on and on. So it opened up like a Pandora’s box for me of being able to flog myself even more. I mean, the self-loathing is still there. I mean, I’m proud of overcoming this disease, on a daily basis, but it’s also a hell of a lot of fun to humiliate myself publicly. It still is. And now I totally understand why.

PCC:
Have you resolved your intimacy and commitment issues?

LEWIS:
No, tragically. That’s why I called my shrink today. I love a wonderful woman. Finally someone who can go to sleep listening to Dylan and wake up and hear a Mel Brooks album and run and see a Cassavetes film for the 30th time with me, someone not half my age, who knows that Sid Caesar is not related to Julius Caesar. This is all good for me. But she’s not perfect. No one is. And I’m still an obsessive-compulsive nut. So she’ll do one crazy thing and I’ll go off the deep end.

As I told my shrink today, it makes sense that I’m a little crazy. I don’t have any children. So I never had to say, ‘Oh, my God, my kid has the flu.’ I just basically had to say, for 30 years, ‘Well, I’ve got Letterman in a week’ or Carson. Or ‘Gee, I’ve got to work on that Conan shot.’ ‘I’ve got to memorize these lines.’

I was in psychotherapy. Still am in a sense, although I don’t go in person much anymore. But for most of my adult life. And I made a career of examining myself on stage. I don’t mind observational humorists. There’s plenty of them and some of them are great. But why I went on stage is that I needed to get validated for who I was, because I wasn’t getting it from important people in my life. So I needed strangers to validate me, basically.

So I didn’t want to talk about, ‘Did you ever notice...?’ I wanted to say, ‘Here’s how I feel...’ and I just prayed that the audience had the same feelings. And obviously they have, otherwise I’d be... I don’t know what I’d be doing now. I wouldn’t be talking to you.

PCC:
And doing material that was so personal made it unique.

LEWIS:
Basically it’s this. I was looking for some authenticity. I loved comedy. And I had a tremendous amount of problems. And then, who knew I was going to become an alcoholic on top of it? So I had a lot to talk about... and still do. And since I changed how I’m feeling every day, I talk about it on stage. It stays fresh for me and my audience.

Interestingly enough, I’m in my fifties now. It’s great that I’m alive. But it’s insane that I’ve reached this age. I just can’t even believe it. But, on the other hand, my fan base, I have middle-aged people who have watched me for 25 years, but I do all the shows and I consider myself relatively hip. Audiences are pretty diverse. I have teenagers to people in their sixties and seventies coming. If they’re older, they come on a gurney, I don’t care.

So I’m proud of the fact that I’ve kept my fans, but like I’m doing a concert next month with Jon Stewart, who was on the young comics special that I hosted years ago. I did a lot of specials for HBO and that was one of them. And he was one of young comics. I’m a great fan of his. We’re doing a concert together in New York. I’ve done ‘The Daily Show’ a billion times. He must have been 10 or 15 years younger than me, but we both can relate to the same fan base. And that’s cool. I sort of feel good about that.

PCC:
if you had grown up happy, healthy, neurosis-free, it might have been a curse?

LEWIS:
Well, let me say this, I don’t know anybody who’s that. I really don’t. It’s just inconceivable to me. If anybody even claims to feel that... I mean, there are people who weren’t abused and had maybe reasonable parents. God knows, my parents tried, with the tools they had. And, they didn’t have any [chuckles]. But their parents didn’t have any tools either. And the grandparents, I’m sure, told my mother’s father, ‘You schmuck, you don’t clean a musket like that!’ It was like hand-me-down low self-esteem, basically. So I don’t blame them... anymore. I blame myself for a lot of the stuff. But I don’t know too many people that are happy.

Bob Dylan once said - I read this in a quote, it was really interesting to me - said, ‘Look, man, I wake up, I’m happy for a little bit, then I get into a funk’ - I’m paraphrasing maybe the greatest poet of our generation - then he said, ‘Then I feel great, then I’m depressed.’ That’s what it is. That’s what it is for most people. And certainly, that’s what it is for me. The key is not to have long periods of depression. That blows. I’ve avoided that, thank God.

PCC:
You’re a fan of Dylan, The Stones, The Beatles, Hendrix, as a youngster, did you ever contemplate a music career

LEWIS:
No, I just love Hendrix, The Beatles. I’m a classic rock guy. But no, I never thought about it. I played guitar and the drums. But I quit drums early on. I only played the drums to get the girls in elementary school. I would walk down the school with the little rubber pad and sit by the jungle gym. It was cool. And I played the snare drum. But that was a drag, because everything was a John Phillip Sousa thing. You couldn’t break out. It wasn’t like, all of a sudden, Thelonious Monk was coming in to play as the kids walked into elementary school.

But the thing that’s been cool for me, after so many years, meeting so many people, and this is not boasting by any stretch of the imagination, in fact, one of my shrinks - and I’ve outlived many - called it an endearment, for some odd reason. But it’s shocking to me that i’m friends with and know so many rock guys. I once had like Frampton or Bonnie Raitt come up to my house to listen to some music of friends of mine I wanted them to hear. Or Ringo’s a great guy, who’s been very helpful to me, in my life. Oh, and Ronnie Wood, who I have some of his paintings. He came over to my house one night to watch the Oscars. And I was like frantic. I put all his paintings in one room, like it was the Ronnie Wood gallery. We’re not like great friends. But he loves the fact that I love his artwork, too. Of course, I love The Stones.

A couple of years ago, Ronnie asked me to come down to the studio, just to hang out. And I had never met Keith before. And after they put down a lick. I was just on fire, man. It was so cool.

In fact, maybe the coolest thing, my favorite group was Procol Harum. I just loved their stuff. Keith Reid is maybe one of the greatest lyricists. They had only a couple of huge hits, but I know his body of work. I mean ‘Whiter Shade of Pale,’ obviously, is so famous. It turned out I wound up meeting them and became really good friends with Procol Harum and with Keith.

And these are the kinds of things that are perks for me. I remember even going to the White House. That kind of stuff is sort of wild, when you get a phone call from, it was the Clinton-Gore years. And they said, ‘Oh, the President has to have you come do this.’ Or ‘The First Lady needs you,’ which is sort of trippy. That’s cool. That’s stuff I’ll never forget.

We’re just humans in a crazy world. But there’s something really bizarre about being asked by a President or a Rolling Stone to do something. It’s like an out-of-body experience. It’s great.

PCC:
You did play guitar and sing?

LEWIS:
I played guitar horribly. And then once I heard the first Hendrix album, I threw my guitar in the garbage. I’m obsessive-compulsive. But I come on stage to ‘Purple Haze.’ It just gets me in the right mood. I’ve been doing it for like 25 years.

Hendrix was unique. He just so moved me, Hendrix. And Lennon for his honesty and his lyrics, particularly his first album, solo album. These are the kinds of things, for an artist, that stick in your brain. I always want to aspire to be as honest and courageous as some of the lyrics that Lennon wrote and try to use my comic instrument as freely as I possibly can. And clearly, Hendrix was like a human guitar. And if I could just hit that moment, even few moments on stage... I mean this guy was doing it most of the time. That’s why they’re icons.

PCC:
‘The Other Great Depression,’ did writing it give you different perspective on life and career?

LEWIS:
Well, that was murder to write. I wrote about 2,000 pages. I had to get it down to 270 or 300. My goal was to have it come out in paperback, which it is now, and it’s doing well, because it’s cheaper and more addicts can read it and maybe get help or inspiration by it. But when I wrote it, I was all over the joint. But I had a really great editor at my first publishing and she said ‘Look, you really have to get down to the nitty-gritty.’ And the last three months, I probably wrote the bulk of the book, because I just felt like I couldn’t hold back.

One of the reasons I like therapy, my therapist helped me get sober, because she knew I was an alcoholic and she wanted me to realize it. I was a cannibal to this woman, because she was so smart and I respected her so much, I just could not lie to her. So when she asked me to keep a diary of when I drank and what time and how much and why, I just quit. I couldn’t lie. That’s when I knew for sure I was an alcoholic. I’d been in denial. It took me about a year-and-a-half of misery to finally get sober.

I don’t preach about it. I joke about it a lot, too. But I’m dead serious about how important it is, for me. But I never preach to other people, only other addicts, if they ask me.

In truth, though, I had to be a cannibal to myself, when I wrote this book, because one of the things about being on stage, I always prided myself on being honest. But when I realized that I was an alcoholic person for so much of my time on stage, not performing it, but as a man, I felt that I had to come clean, for myself. Not that I owed it to the world or to fans. Just to myself. And I felt good about doing it.

I watched this documentary on Cassavetes. And he made a comment, he said if something was too entertaining, when he would be at a screening, he would go back and edit it out. He said he didn’t want to entertain people. He wanted to shake people up. And when I wrote the book, I felt that way.