Photo credit: Alan Mercer

By Paul Freeman (May 2010 interview)

Oh, that voice! Sure, Sally Kellerman possesses the hottest lips in cinema history, as evidenced by “M*A*S*H.” A smile that could melt a glacier. You can’t ignore the eternally enticing eyes. And there’s the silky blonde hair.

But it’s her supremely sultry, sensuous voice that makes her instantly unforgettable. Kellerman makes age irrelevant. She’s as attractive as ever and her unmistakable voice has never sounded better.

Though Kellerman’s honeyed voice has been heard on countless commercial voiceovers, it’s better served in the form of song. The Oscar-nominated actress has spent much of her life exploring music. And the result is a gorgeous new CD, simply titled, “Sally.”

Produced by Grammy-winner Val Garay, the album features such stunners as the jazzy, torchy, “The Time of Your Life,” an R&B-inflected “Say It Isn’t So,” the bluesy “Sugar In My Bowl” and a mesmerizing “I Put A Spell On You.” Kellerman’s vocals are nuanced, expressive and exquisite.

She’ll present “Sally Kellerman - "Hot Lips To Cool Blues!,” Friday and Saturday, June 4 and 5, 2010 at 10:00 p.m. in The Rrazz Room in Hotel Nikko, 222 Mason Street; San Francisco. Tickets are $35 and can be purchased by calling Ticket Web at 866-468-3399 or online at www.therrazzroom.com. For more info on Kellerman’s performances, visit www.sallykellerman.com.

Verve Records signed her at age 18. But it wasn’t until the early ‘70s that she released her debut album, the impressive “Roll With The Feeling.”

But the public knows her best from her charismatic acting performances. Kellerman graced dozens of classic ‘60s television series, including “The Outer Limits,” “Star Trek,” “The Invaders, “Ben Casey,” “Bonanza,” “T.H.E. Cat” and “Hawaii Five-O.” Another memorable role came in the acclaimed mini-series “Centennial.”

The versatile actress’ notable film credits include “A Little Romance,” “Brewster McCloud,” “Foxes,” “Back To School” and “Last of the Red Hot Lovers.” Of course, it was her portrayal of Hot Lips O’Houlihan in “M*A*S*H” that transformed her into a pop culture icon.

Married to producer Jonathan Krane (“Look Who’s Talking,” “Face/Off”), Kellerman has a grown daughter Claire and 20-year-old twins, Jack and Hannah.

Kellerman will next be seen in the film “Night Club,” which will feature her musical, as well as dramatic talents. She’ll soon be filming the major movie “Sympathy For The Devil,” which stars Samuel L. Jackson and Josh Duhamel, directed by Boaz Yakin (“Remember the Titans”).

No matter much screen time she receives, Kellerman, as always, will make an indelible impression.

The charming performer took time to talk with Pop Culture Classics.

POP CULTURE CLASSICS:
You’ve managed to remain forever young.

SALLY

KELLERMAN:

I’m just so lucky that I have these passions that I enjoy so much. The music. And I just finished a movie called ‘Night Club.’ I play an Alzheimer’s patient who starts to sing in the middle of the night, one night, because music and lyrics, they can remember stuff like that, but not a lot of other things.

PCC:
That must have been a challenging role.

KELLERMAN:
It was, because my focus has so been on the music the last two or three years. I think ‘Boynton Beach Club’ was the last movie I made - I did something for Hallmark, but an actual movie. And all along my film career, I’ve never stopped singing. I don’t want to bore you with my history - turning down movies, getting bands, going on the road. I made my first album in the early ‘70s. Been at it all along. But in these last few years, I haven’t thought of acting at all. I wasn’t sure that I’d ever want to act again. Music has been such a strong passion of mine, always. And then Val Garay came along and produced this CD that I’m so proud of, this sound.

PCC:
Does it seem like the culmination of a lifelong dream, an album that fully captures your spirit and your talent?

KELLERMAN:
I think that, in a way, it does. I love to sing those contemporary, beautiful ballads. And then I’ve got to have some of that funk in there. Someone asked, ‘Who are your influences?’ I said, ‘Well, who isn’t? I’ve lived so long.’

I started out with my roots in jazz and then Laura Nyro and Janis Joplin came along and I was finished. My first album was all balls-to-the-wall, or whatever they say. Not a lot of savvy, but a lot of heart and guts, was kind of what my first album was. And then I’ve been produced by people like Barry Manilow and Bobby Womack, recorded in Muscle Shoals, Nashville, all kinds of things. But the truth is, I think I am a bit of both things. And both things are on the CD.

PCC:
Was important to you to include new material, as well as the classics?

KELLERMAN:
Hal David of Bacharach and David put me together with this keyboard guy, who’s coming up to San Francisco. He’s name’s Chris Caswell. And Hal insisted that I work with him. He said, ‘I’ve seen you sing too many wrong songs for too many years. You’ve got to work with Chris.’ And Chris had some time. We both had time. Just suddenly, out of the blue, time to work on the material. We spent a year at The Roxy, singing standards, the old American songbook standards. The Roxy’s a rock ‘n’ roll club. Lou Adler opened it. He produced my first demo.

And then we moved on to this little funky club called Ghengis Cohen and that’s where we stayed for like three years. About once a month, we’d just come in and we’d bring new material. And that’s the anti-show. We can’t make any mistakes. There’s no planning, no writing, no anything, just the music.

And then Val Garay came in one night with a friend and kept coming back. He said he wanted to see everything we’d worked on. Chris and I demoed a lot of things that we really loved. A guy called Bob Este helped us. So Val had all those and everything that he’d heard live, etc. and he just started laying it all out for us - ‘Okay, two of these, one of those, one blues, one this.’

He’s such a great producer. The album is so clean. People have called it ‘timeless.’ I didn’t know what that meant. But I kind of see that now. It isn’t attached to an era. There’s a lot of singing where you know what period it came out of - ‘Oh, that’s the ‘70s, that’s the ‘80s.’ This is a kind conglomeration of a lot of those things.

Photo credit: Alan Mercer

PCC:
Val knows how to bring the most out of a song and out of an artist, how to make an emotional connection with the listener?

KELLERMAN:
Yeah. I just loved his musical ideas. And he got me the greatest musicians. I mean, classic musicians - Russ Kunkel [drums], Lee Sklar [bass], Dean Parks [guitar]. And those guys have been on everybody’s hit records, from ‘Tapestry’ ‘til now. Val worked with James Taylor and Linda Ronstadt and Bonnie Raitt and he got the Record of the Year Grammy for ‘Bette Davis Eyes’ with Kim Carnes. He’s just the real deal. He started out as an engineer. So he’s a great engineer.

When he played it back for me, after we’d finally finished it, I said, ‘Oh, my God, is that who I am?’ He said, ‘What? You didn’t think I knew who you were? All those shows I sat through?’ But he really understood something about me. He made the songs better. He made me better.

PCC:
The well known songs, what’s the thought process behind making them your own?

KELLERMAN:
Well, when he said I had to do, ‘I Put A Spell On You,’ I said, ‘No, no, I have nothing fresh to bring to it. I can’t possibly do that. Everybody’s done that. I don’t know how to do that.’ And actually, that’s a really good cut. And ‘Sugar in My Bowl’ never even occurred to me. Nina Simone, I guess it was one of her most famous songs. I didn’t have any idea.

I was looking for songs. Someone gave me an album, said, ‘Listen to Nina Simone.’ I listened to like 18 songs. There were 22 on the album. I’m sitting there, going, ‘No, no, no.’ Nothing interested me. And then I heard ‘Sugar in My Bowl’ and I went, ‘Oh, my God, I found another nugget. Nobody even knows what song this is! This is going to be great!’ I’d gotten two Nina Simone albums. I turned around and looked at my desk and the name of the other CD was ‘Sugar in My Bowl.’ [She laughs]. She’s so specific. But when I started to bring it in and work on it, it just became mine. So I don’t think it has any relation to Nina Simone. And I love singing it.

PCC:
You seem to be really at home singing the blues. Is it the emotional connection?

KELLERMAN:
It is an emotional connection. When I was at The Roxy, I back-up singers, I had a band, one guy from the Dan Band named Gene Reed. And they’d all say to me, ‘Why aren’t you singing the blues, man? Your voice is so great for it!’ They were always talking to me about that. Then finally, one day, somebody brought in my album. And they said, ‘See, we knew it!’ And I had kind of thought that was not really me. Somehow I disassociated from it. When I heard it, too, I realized, ‘Oh, wait a minute, that really is a part of me.’

And then Chris started writing for me. He wrote ‘Somebody Call the Cops.’ When you don’t write, coming up with the songs is the hardest thing. My mother was a piano teacher. If I’d only been smart enough to learn, I could have been a contender, you know what I mean? [Laughs]. But when you don’t write, getting a good song is like a miracle. It just drops into your lap.

I was shooting a little something for my husband, one of the guys in the crew said, ‘I think I have a song you’d like.’ It turned out to be ‘Over Over Night.’ And Russ Kunkel said, ‘Let’s put in a Barry White feel.’ And that’s how that came about.

So it was always intended to be just the things that I love. I’d worked a lot with Mike Stoller and Jerry Leiber.

PCC:
Yeah, that was fun that you included their tune ‘Love Potion #9.’ They were longtime supporters of yours?

KELLERMAN:
Yes, they had a band and they took me to Carnegie Hall two years ago with Natalie Cole and Donald Fagen to sing at a night honoring them. I’ve done a lot of work with Mike and Jerry. We’ve been in the studio, too. But it wasn’t until Chris and then Val came along that everything kind of gelled.

I have two camps - people who think I should do nothing but the standards and the contemporary ballads. That beautiful third cut on the album, ‘Say It Isn’t So,’ was written by Mervyn Warren of Take Six. It’s so beautiful, I think, so exquisite.

But I have to have fun. And I love singing, not rock ‘n’ roll per se, but just blues-based, funky stuff. I’m attracted to it. I couldn’t do without that, just as I couldn’t do without the ballads.

PCC:
The anti- show concept is basically not concerning yourself with structure or formula. Just being spontaneous?

KELLERMAN:
It is. And it’s really Robert Altman’s fault, because I did a big show with back-up singers and big band, intermission, video and everything. And I did a lot of talking about when I was fat in high school and things that embarrassed me so much, because I was so bored with it [Laughs]. I just found that so uninteresting, as opposed to so many interesting things in life. And I worked with great people. And there was some interesting writing in that show.

But Altman hosted an evening. And the next day, he met with us all and he said, ‘Don’t talk.’ And I was thrilled to think that I didn’t have to tell those particular stories. So then when I went to the Roxy, to do nothing but standards, American songbook things, I took him literally. And I didn’t speak. So there was a little staging and things like that. I was still TRYING to sing and still TRYING to be good. And I was trying not to speak. Trying to be a good singer. And trying not to talk. And one night, I just went, ‘And I’m so happy’ or something. It was the most humiliating moment of my life. Some stupid thing just burst out of my mouth.

By the time I got to Genghis Cohen, what that had morphed into was, if I’ve got something to say, I’ll say it. If I don’t, I don’t have to. If I trip over myself, I don’t need to worry. There’s just no worries. It should be called the No-Worries Show.

All my life, people have said, ‘Oh, people want to know who you are.’ So all through my career, I would get somebody to write me some comedy. I’m not a standup comic in that sense - ba-dum-bump, Did you hear about the time... ‘ Like Rodney Dangerfield might - my lovely co-star from ‘Back To School.’ But what I feel that I’m sensing, what the audience likes to see, is how one responds in the moment. I think that gives you a better look at who somebody is. For me, not for anybody else. Other performers have had beautifully written shows that fit them.

PCC:
With your approach, it’s more of a shared adventure with the audience.

KELLERMAN:
It is, man. It is an adventure. The other night, I was almost strangling someone to death with my cord. They didn’t have a wireless mic. And I was out in the audience and having fun, looking them all in the eye and singing this beautiful song. And somebody said, ‘Ow!’ and I turned around and saw the cord, wrapped around, strangling them to death. And out of my mouth just came, ‘A little love. A little pain. Well, you know. You’ve been married.’ Silly stuff like that. And then I had to go unwrap her.

PCC:
So there’s always something unexpected.

KELLERMAN:
There’s always something, yeah.

PCC:
Your vocals ooze sensuality. Is that something you’re conscious of or does it just come naturally?

KELLERMAN:
I just can’t help it [Laughs]. It isn’t anything I’m thinking about. Absolutely not. I’m thinking about the story to tell. Listen, I’m delighted. I wouldn’t turn it down.

I’ve been so lucky to have a voice that people seem to enjoy listening to. Since the ‘60s, I’ve been doing voiceovers, a very successful career with that.

When I was a kid, people would say, ‘Oh, you have such a funny voice.’ My sister would say,’ That stupid voice of yours.’ [Laughs].

PCC:
Really?

KELLERMAN:
Oh, I love to get my sister. She used to say, ‘Shut up, Big Lips!’ And the other one was about my stupid voice. So I call her [She calls up an extra-sexy, whispery, velvety voice] ‘It’s your sister. The one with the stupid voice and the big lips.’ [Laughs].

PCC:
She was just jealous, that’s all.

KELLERMAN:
Jealous - [Laughs] - that’s funny.

PCC:
When you’re singing, do you use acting techniques, like sense memory?

KELLERMAN:
Well, that’s it. I’m so lucky, too. Because it’s just telling stories. It took me a lifetime, really, to get free to enjoy myself, the way I am right now. With the audience. I’m just loving it.

I started out afraid of audiences. When you’re a kid and singing for the first times, it’s like, ‘Oh, my God!’ And I don’t know, somewhere, I just lucked out and it clicked over. I lucked out after 40 years of practicing [Laughs].

But yes, very much so. I am an actress. But I’m musical. And I am a singer. Not just an actor who sings. Catherine Hicks, we were someplace recently, and she had seen one of my shows and said, ‘Oh, my God, you’re a real singer! You’re not just an actor who sings!’ I went, ‘Oh, yay!’

PCC:
Yes, the skepticism is difficult to understand. It’s natural for artists to delve into a variety of artistic pursuits.

KELLERMAN:
You know, when you’re a singer, you just slip right into the movies. If you sing three notes, ‘Oh, she’d be great for that part in the movie.’ But God forbid you’ve been a successful actress and you want to sing. I don’t know what it is about that transference. They’ll say, ‘Oh, I don’t want to go see Sally sing. She’s an actress.’ It’s been a hard thing. It’s the biggest challenge, really.

PCC:
Do you think acting has benefited your singing and vice versa?

KELLERMAN:
I’ll say. Now, when there’s melody and music, I just can sit down and tell a story within the music. So it has depth. The thing about music is, you don’t have to be a character. Well, if you go to Broadway, you have to be a character. I’ve done musicals, ‘Mame’ and all that kind of stuff. But I’ve always wanted to be a recording artist. I’m doing what I really love. I love being out there, one on one, connecting with the audience. It’s just a thrill.

I just had a show last week. So I sound like a moron, I’ve been so happy lately. But it’s just so much fun. People say I made them cry and then everybody’s laughing and I don’t even know why. Nothing written. But somehow, it’s just the fun of being there. I guess I was a class clown. So I guess that comes out of it.

I have no obligation to be funny and I’m not trying to be funny. But it’s just the fun of being there. It’s not something I’m striving for or have to work for. Just like the music now. I’m not having to work for it.

Photo credit: Alan Mercer

PCC:
It just flows. In both singing and acting, is it tricky to find the balance between the cerebral, intellectual side and the emotional, instinctive element?

KELLERMAN:
Of course, as I say, the music at this point is instinctive. You just get a great song, a great melody, and boom, you’re there.

I loved the challenge of doing this new movie. I was scared to death, after I said yes. I said yes, because they called me. If I’d had to get in line, I don’t think I would have. And then after I said yes, about three weeks later, knowing it was going to shoot in about a month, I went, ‘Oh, my God, what have I done? I haven’t been acting. I can’t play an Alzheimer’s patient! How do I get out of this?’

But instead, I volunteered at an Alzheimer’s wing, in a home, and just was amazed at what I saw. And was so grateful to be there. I was able to take so much from that. And it really got me excited about acting again.

And I’m going to do a film called ‘Sympathy For The Devil.’ That’s coming up in eight, ten weeks. They’re doing a rewrite right now. But it’s the real deal. And it’s a real part and a wonderful writer-director. So I’m very excited, because I reminded myself, ‘You can act - What do you know? You really do like this!’

PCC:
Maybe it was distancing yourself from it that made the acting more desirable?

KELLERMAN:
Well, listen, also I need to grow up and earn a living and pay attention to something that’s been so wonderful for me all these years.

PCC:
What’s your role in ‘Sympathy’?

KELLERMAN:
I play a very interesting character, an F.B.I. agent. It’s not a cliché. It’s really so well written. So there’s shoot-em-up, but it’s more character driven. And it’s about something important.

PCC:
It was at 18 that you signed your first recording contract? So was music the original focus?

KELLERMAN:
I knew that I always wanted to do both. I waited. I was heavy in high school. So I waited until I was in 12th grade to admit that I wanted to be an actress, because I thought everybody would think I thought I was pretty or something. And I felt such low self-esteem and everything. But I always put trios together. I had these friends and we all loved to sing at the auditorium. We’d mostly giggle, more than sing. I’d always be the instigator of that. I’d say, ‘Let’s sing.’ And my friends sang harmony. So that was good.

And then our classmates were The Four Preps, they were a group in the ‘50s. Glen Larson went on to become a very successful television producer. But me and my friend Norma Jean Neilsen, we’d sing with two of the Preps, because they preferred The Four Freshman like we did. And they were more like the Hi-Lo’s. And then one of my friends in high school knew Norman Granz, who was head of Verve Records.

We made demos up in my living room. So I was definitely passionate about the music.

But I did my first play in my senior year in high school. I got to play the mother and they added a song for me. Anyway, Norman Granz heard me and Barney Kessel signed me.

PCC:
He was one of the great guitarists.

KELLERMAN:
Yeah, he was one of the greats. But I don’t know what happened. I was sort of a geek. A lot of the young kids today already have managers. This just happened out of the blue. So I never did record. Then I made demos and I never thought they were good enough. And I never let anybody hear them.

And then I was in acting class. And that was more fun, being with your peers. You could go in there and work with somebody. I was so scared to stand up and sing in front of anybody by myself. So the acting just took over. But I never, for one second, didn’t know that I needed to be a singer.

I sang on the Academy Awards [1970], the same night that I was nominated for Best Supporting Actress for ‘M*A*S*H.’ And Quincy Jones was the conductor. And I had moaned on his first record label. I had to moan some orgasms or something for Quincy. I was married, for just a moment, to practice what not to do. And, when I was nominated, my husband said, ‘Tell him you sing.’ I said, ‘I’m not going to tell him I sing.’ But I did tell him. And I’ll be damned, if they didn’t say, ‘Great.’ And I sang, ‘Thank You Very Much’ with Ricardo Montalban, Petula Clark and Burt Lancaster.

PCC:
Wow, some quartet!

KELLERMAN:
[Laughs] Yes. But I got to say, ‘On behalf of all the people who are assembled here, I’d really like to mention, if I may...’ And I got to do this testimonial to my pal, Jack Nicholson, who was in my acting class. And all these people that I knew and had grown up with and I got to speak and sing ‘Thank You Very Much.’ So it wasn’t the big breakthrough for my music career, but it sure was exciting. And they have a DVD of a lot of the Academy Awards and I went to see it. I was sitting next to Arthur Hiller and some people. We were watching it. ‘Oh, isn’t this fun! Oh look at that!’ And suddenly, on I came. And I was so proud! I’m singing ‘Thank You Very Much.’ And I’d like to say, ‘Thank you very much.’

PCC:
The Actors Studio you attended, was that a branch in L.A.?

KELLERMAN:
Yes. I auditioned here.

PCC:
You studied with Jeff Corey, quite a noted teacher. Did you gain a lot from that experience?

KELLERMAN:
Oh, Jeff Corey. That was the bee’s knees. Yes it was. He was the greatest. You know what it cost us? About 10 bucks, because he felt that actors needed the opportunity. We don’t think that way anymore. We think bottom line. And everything is so expensive, the acting classes.

One of my favorites, I’m not going to say who, a wonderful teacher and is so great, but it’s such a fortune to have private hours and go and work with these people. So it’s just amazing, when I think about Jeff, who was a blacklisted actor from New York, came out and just gave so much. And right out of high school, I said to my friend Norma Jean Nielsen, ‘I’m going to be an actress.’ And she said, ‘If you’re really serious, you’ve got to work with Jeff Corey.’ He worked with Jimmy Dean and that was one of our heroes, aside from Marlon. So I went. And the class was full of Roger Corman and Jack Nicholson and Robert Towne, who wrote ‘Chinatown’ and Carole Eastman, who wrote ‘Five Easy Pieces’ and my best friend, Luana Anders, Robert Blake, James Coburn, just all kinds of different people. That was my beginning. Richard Chamberlain.

PCC:
With all those talented people in a room, was there just a sense of camaraderie or was there competition, as well?

KELLERMAN:
No, I didn’t sense any competition. Maybe when Shirley Knight joined the class, after several years, and she could cry. Oh, were we hating her! She was so beautiful and she could cry her eyes out [Laughs]. She is such a wonderful actress. Heavenly in ‘Sweet Bird of Youth.’ Beautiful.

PCC:
Speaking of beautiful, you mentioned low self-esteem issues. People must have been telling you how attractive and talented you were. How did that low self-esteem hang on?

KELLERMAN:
You know, it’s like music, when it gets a hold of you, it never lets go.

I just saw ‘Brewster McCloud’ recently. There’s a new Robert Altman biography. So me, Elliott Gould, Tom Skerritt, we were all in Boston with Katherine Altman and they ran ‘Brewster McCloud’ and ‘M*A*S*H’ and when I saw ‘Brewster McCloud,’ which was the second film I did with Robert Altman, I thought, ‘Oh, gosh, I was sort of cute. Gosh, not bad. I did kind of a good job there.’ It’s like, looking back, I’m thinking, ‘Shoot, man, all those years I wasted, not appreciating who I was.’

PCC:
So even when you were making those films, you were still battling self-doubt?

KELLERMAN:
I was just reading Jane Fonda’s book and she quoted someone as saying that all the anxiety and that stuff before we go to work, it’s all part of the process, part of the deal. So who knows? I must have had enough confidence to get up and do it. I learned at class and I did a lot of plays. Each thing is a challenge in its own way. But I’m having a very good time now, a confident time.

But there’s a combination. And low self-esteem often masquerades as arrogance. I had that season in my film career, also, which is not attractive on anybody... or to anybody. That is part of low self-esteem. You think you’re nothing. Or you think you’re the greatest.

PCC:
Or put on the mask of thinking you’re the greatest.

KELLERMAN:
Yeah, and start acting it out. But, at this moment... I am the greatest. [Laughs heartily]. No, at this moment in my life, I’m feeling very good, very comfortable and very grateful to have made it to this place, where I feel like this.

PCC:
Was ‘Reform School Girl’ [1957] your first movie?

KELLERMAN:
That was it, with my first boyfriend, Eddie Byrnes, ‘Kookie Lend Me Your Comb’ Byrnes, which I don’t know if anybody’s alive to remember, but he was my first boyfriend before he had that TV series. And then we didn’t go together and he married somebody else. And my first movie, he was the star, with my best friend, Luana Anders. I guess, in those days, it was Luana Anderson. She starred in Coppola’s very first film.

PCC:
‘Dementia 13.’

KELLERMAN:
‘Dementia 13,’ that’s what it was. That was Luana. She was my best friend all my life... ‘til she died. And so it was she and Eddie Byrnes. And I had like three lines. I played this big, butch character, because I was big, chunky and everything. So I carried the tools. So the minute I hit the screen, everybody laughed [Laughs]. It was a prison movie,

PCC:
So you were with Edd Byrnes before the craze?

KELLERMAN:
Oh, yes. It was like the writers I lived with over the years, the screenwriters. It would be a month after we broke up that they’d have their first hit [Laughs].

PCC:
You must have been their muse. Then you had so many terrific episodic TV credits.

KELLERMAN:
Oh, I did so much, didn’t I? Well, it started with ‘The Outer Limits.’ Before that, I worked with Fred MacMurray on ‘My Three Sons.’ I played a big, giant thing with antlers. I was a blind date or something. So I’d have a little something here, one line there. I started out like that.

PCC:
You did an ‘Ozzie & Harriet’?

KELLERMAN:
Oh, I went to school, David was a year ahead of me, Ricky was a year behind me. I did ‘The Marriage Go-Round’ in Pasadena. And they came to see me. And Ozzie and Harriet asked me to go on the road with them. So my first, maybe my only, tour, doing a play, was with Ozzie and Harriet. Oh, God almighty, they were so great. They were lovely. She was so smart and wonderful. And he was so smart. They were both great.

In those days, I always thought I was so fat and giant and so Ozzie and I were dieting. We’d suffer and have a steak and a tomato. That was what you were supposed to eat in those days. And an egg. That was about all you got, when you were on a diet. And Harriet had discovered the no food-combining. And so she took the train and I went with her. She didn’t like to fly, so I went on the train with her. And I’d have a hard-boiled egg and tomato slices. She’s have corn, mashed potatoes and pie for dinner. She lost 10 pounds on the tour. Ozzie and I stayed the same.

PCC:
You managed to be on a lot of shows that became cult favorites. You mentioned ‘The Outer Limits.’ You were on a couple of those.

Photo credit: Alan Mercer

KELLERMAN:
Well, that’s what started my career. I’d done my first play, somebody had seen me waiting on tables in a restaurant and I got that first job. Then I got this other play, ‘Call Me By My Rightful Name’ and Joe Stefano, who wrote the screenplay for ‘Psycho’ and produced ‘Outer Limits,’ he came to the play. And he came backstage. I didn’t know who he was.

He said, ‘I saw you in a play six months ago and the growth is amazing. I may do a series and I’m going to send you a script. ‘ As he drove away, I turned to my friend and said, ‘I’ll be in the restaurant the rest of my life.’

Six months later, he sent me a script. It said, ‘The part is Ingrid. The magic is yours.’ Oh, man. That was my first one with Harry Guardino and Gary Merrill and I was a nurse. Every time I play a nurse, I just rocket to stardom.

And then he wrote another one, where, a monster, I kill him and get trapped in this plastic shield. That was with Chita Rivera that wonderful actor, Martin Landau.

And then I did the pilot of ‘Star Trek’ with Leonard and Bill.

PCC:
That must have quite an adventure.

KELLERMAN:
Yeah, it was. I was guest starring. I had just done a ‘Kraft Theater’ with Gary Lockwood, Don Gordon and everything. That was just too wonderful. I’d done ‘Chrysler Hour’ with Rod Steiger. So I was really cooking. So I just said, ‘Okay, I’ll do this.’ And then I get there and I don’t know what the hell it is - powder blue stretch pants and waiting around for them to shoot the machines. I had no idea what it was... But I’ve always felt kind of responsible for its success [Laughs]. I did like playing a goddess.

PCC:
Typecasting.

KELLERMAN:
Exactly. [She laughs]

PCC:
You had those strange eyes in that one.

KELLERMAN:
Silver lenses that Gary Lockwood hated so badly. They didn’t bother me, but he was just going berserk. I saw Gary recently and he said, ‘What do you mean? I had to wear them for seven days, you just wore them for three.’

PCC:
So did you end up with some of the cult following from ‘Star Trek’?

KELLERMAN:
Yes, well, you know, if you sneeze on a ‘Star Trek,’ the Trekkies are there. They know what you did. But I do now take great pride in having been in the ‘Star Trek’ pilot.

PCC:
‘The Invaders’ has finally been released on DVD. You appeared in that show, as well.

KELLERMAN:
I was on that. I always had such a crush on Roy [Thinnes]. So we had our moment in the sun. It was brief. But we’ve been friends always. He lives in New York and I’m out here [Southern California]. But he’s wonderful. I’d like to see that series. It was a good series.

PCC:
And ‘It Takes A Thief,’ did you enjoy working with Robert Wagner?

KELLERMAN:
Oh, what a sweet man Robert Wagner is. God, I loved him, from the moment I ever worked with him. Why? Aside from the fact that’s he’s gorgeous and talented and charming, but it’s because I had a dog, a black cocker named Holly and I’d bring him to work and Robert would say, ‘Is Holly here today? I have something for Holly.’ And I’d be like, ‘Oh, my God, what a great man!’ [Laughs]. I think he is really just a lovely person.

PCC:
You did a ‘Legends of Jesse James,’ you mentioned that James Dean was an idol of yours. Christopher Jones was one of the actors who was burdened with the ‘next James Dean’ tag.

KELLERMAN:
Yes, Chris Jones. I knew Chris. He was so gorgeous and had some talent. It’s a shame, he had a lot of things, personally, that he had to deal with. Took him away. It’s sad.

PCC:
You did a ‘Mannix’ episode.

KELLERMAN:
I love ‘Mannix.’ I loved Mike Connors. Oh, he was darling. It was the first time I had the chance to say, ‘Hurt me, but only if you’re rolling,’ [Laughs] as somebody was grabbing my arm.

PCC:
You worked with some fine directors on these guest shots.

KELLERMAN:
Yes, I did a ‘Slattery’s People’ with Mark Rydell. And Sydney Pollack, I did a pilot for ‘From Here To Eternity’ with Darren McGavin. I was going to be Kerr and he was going to be Lancaster. And Sydney, who I knew personally, a bit, not well, at that time, he came in and shot some extra scenes. So that was exciting for me. I said, ‘Sydney, can I try another thing?’ He said, ‘Sure, that’s what they have film in the camera for.’ He was instinctive, a great director. He directed so many different genres of films, so many great films. ‘The Way We Were’ with Streisand and Redford. Oh, my God, what a great, romantic film. and ‘Three Days of the Condor,’ ‘Tootsie,’ so many different things, just great, great films.

PCC:
And he was a good character actor, as well.

KELLERMAN:
He was good, wasn’t he? The last few things he did before he died were just wonderful.

PCC:
When projects like the ‘Eternity’ pilot don’t come to fruition, how tough is that to handle?

KELLERMAN:
You know, darling, we have unusual muscles in certain areas [Laughs]. I didn’t know that I ever really wanted to do a series at that time. And then later, I turned down a lot. And now I’m going, ‘Anybody got a series that they’d like me to do?’

PCC:
In the ‘60s, were you anxious to get out of television and into features?

KELLERMAN:
Oh, yeah. I grew up in the ‘40s and ‘50s and I wanted to be in the movies. So when Bob said, ‘I’ll give you the best part in the picture,’ I got into the movies.

People say, why didn’t you do the series [‘M*A*S*H’]? I’d been in television,wanting to get into film. And then I was nominated. And I love creating different characters. Of course, then I would get bands and go on the road. And turn all the parts down. I didn’t know anything about career planning. I just knew about finding your bliss.

PCC:
Is it true you originally went in for the part of Lt. Dish in ‘M*A*S*H’?

KELLERMAN:
Yeah, I did. As you know, from hearing about my sister, I was always hiding my mouth. But for this, I wore red lipstick. So I went in and I was there for two minutes, in a roomful of people, and he said, ‘I’ll give you the best part in the picture.’ I went out and counted the lines and couldn’t find them. I went home, bitter, thinking I’d never get into the movies. I went back and worked myself into a teary, huffed-up state, ‘Why does she have to leave the film? Why can’t she do this and that?’ He just looked at me so calmly and said, ‘Well, why couldn’t she? Why don’t you take a chance? You could end up with something or nothing?’ That was really something.

So after the shower scene, the breakdown scene, he came around the tent and said, ‘I had no idea you were going to do it like that. Now you can say in the film, you’re vulnerable.’ He just helped created that other stuff. The cheerleading, which was one of the happiest moments of my life. I was 5’10”, 170 pounds in high school. I never would have been a cheerleader, never would have been asked to do that. And the old class clown just kicked in. And it was so much fun.

I just saw it recently, because we’ve been going to several of these book events. And there was a retrospective in Santa Monica. I wasn’t going to see ‘M*A*S*H’ again, for heaven’s sakes, after all these years. I was with Katherine Altman and I said, ‘Isn’t it over yet?,’ because Elliott and I were going to talk. She said, ‘Well, let me see.’ So she goes to check ‘It’s the football scene. Don’t you want to see the football scene?’ I walked in. The place was packed. There wasn’t a seat in the house. And people, in unison, were howling with laughter, just like they did 40 years ago. It was just amazing. And I laughed myself.

I have such happy memories of that, just such a great moment in time. Elliott and I and Tom Skerritt, we are big Altman-ophiles, or whatever you call it. We are so grateful for our experiences with him. He was so unique. He just stayed involved and friends all these years. And I’m just sad that I missed some of the films that he asked me to do, that I couldn’t do or I was too stupid and didn’t do, something like that, because working with him was really unique, a fantastic experience.

PCC:
You were traumatized by the nude scene before it was shot?

KELLERMAN:
[Laughs] Oh, believe me- I know it doesn’t seem like it now, it seems like go get Sally and the shirt comes right off - but taking their clothes off, that was the last thing on Earth for somebody who grew up chunky and not liking themselves very much. But I knew that it was like a huge story point in the script. And when I said, ‘Bob, can I at least have lighting, so I can look good?’ He said, ‘Yeah, you can stand there with 120 guys in the crew while I light you for an hour or you can do it as fast as you hit the deck, that’s what we’ll see.’ Nobody ever hit a deck that fast in their life. [Laughs].

I asked him if I could wash my hair so I wouldn’t just be staring straight ahead when the curtain blew up.

KELLERMAN:
Another of your Altman films, ‘Brewster McCloud’ seems like it should have a cult following, as well.

KELLERMAN:
You know, that should be re-released. It is wild. Bud Cort is one of my closest friends. That film is just amazing. I didn’t know that I liked it that much in the ‘70s. And Bob always said it was his favorite film. Over the years, maybe he added a couple more to it, but essentially, that was his favorite. And when I saw it the other night, Bert Remsen, the bigot, socking his wife, swearing, saying everything that none of us would want to say or dare to say or believe in. Margaret Hamilton singing ‘The Star Spangled Banner’ with the red shoes. I mean, it was just wild. But Cort flying. Me with wing scars on my back.

PCC:
Altman had such great imagination, did he always encourage creativity from his actors?

KELLERMAN:
Oh, totally, yeah. Absolutely. Looked forward to it. He’d always say, ‘Once I’ve cast it, my job is done.’

He trusted himself, so he didn’t have to check with 20 people to see about who he wanted to hire. Luckily for those of us who worked with him, he could just say who he wanted and make it happen, without having to get approval from the studio, get approval from everybody else.

PCC:
I loved the ‘Roll With The Feeling’ album. Lou Adler, after producing ‘Brewster McCloud, he was involved with that?

KELLERMAN:
Lou [The Mamas & The Papas, Sam Cooke, Johnny Rivers] did the demo. Then Gene Page [Lionel Richie, Barry White] was the arranger on it. It was Carole King’s rhythm section. Lee Sklar, the bass player, who I just adore, played on ‘Tapestry’ and he was probably there that night. But Lou didn’t speak. And I had such a crush on him. I was scared of him and everything like that. He was such great producer. He threw a birthday party and had twin pigs and ducks - I’m a Gemini, you know. And on our days off, he’d take us, he had this big Rolls Royce with black windows. And he’d take us to Neiman Marcus, which I’d never heard of, take us shopping for the day. He was so great. I adored him. Brilliance, as a record producer.

PCC:
It was a knockout of an album. It didn’t get as much attention as it deserved. Were you happy with it?

KELLERMAN:
Well, you know, again, it goes back to awareness. I had learning issues. I hate to name them. But I did. They didn’t know what it was in those days. I didn’t. And I just adjusted. If I was in New York, doing a play, I’d go to a drug store and sit at the counter and learn my lines, with the noise around me. At home, I walk around the mountains and work on stuff. Sit in the car. Ways that I found that work. I didn’t know that I had learning issues. But I did. And I do. So I didn’t ever have an overview. I really just thought it was about my passion. I didn’t know about business or how to do things. So when ‘Roll With The Feeling’ came out - and I got really good reviews - and there’s several real hummers in there. [She sings] ‘Alabama... ‘ When it comes to Alabama, I’ve got about as much reference as the man in the moon. But one of my friends wrote it. So I went, ‘Okay, I’ll sing that.’ But, in general, oh, my God, it was so great to have that experience.

But when it came out, I was off making ‘Slither,’ one of my favorite experiences making movies, with Jimmy Caan. We were both younger. And he was such a devil. He taught me to box. And he’s lasso me. He’d tell the stuntman, ‘Hey, ride up front with me, Nickerson.’ I was the star of the movie and I had to sit in the back. But my character loved him so much, it didn’t matter. But I remember, Louise Lasser loved my album. And our hotel rooms were near each other and I could hear her playing it all night long. I was just so proud.

But it didn’t occur to me to talk to the record company about promoting the album. I was not aware, not involved. Didn’t really have anybody working with me who knew anything. And I didn’t. So I didn’t do any promotion. But when I’m out doing these autograph signing things, people come in with that record album and say they love it. I used to say, ‘Anybody who bought my album, I’ll have them home for dinner.’

PCC:
And ‘The Boston Strangler,’ did you get a lot of attention from that role, as well?

KELLERMAN:
That was wonderful for Tony [Curtis], because he was wanting to change his stripes and let people see who he really was as an actor.

PCC:
Wanting to do diverse work in films, was it challenging, being so identified as Hot Lips?

KELLERMAN:
You know, if I hadn’t turned down so many of these friggin’ movies, I probably wouldn’t still be... I don’t know.. Hot Lips just seems to live on. It was a wonderful series and very successful. So all of that has kept the thing going. But I did turn down a lot of films to follow my bliss and sing with bands, going on the road, just not knowing. A couple were really big hits. I didn’t have an overview. I didn’t understand how business and life work. And it is show business. When things come to you, and you’re hot, you have to really take advantage of that and build that into something. And I just wanted to work on my music. I said, ‘Okay, I’ve got the movie thing set now, now I’ll go off and work on my music.’

And I’m not sorry. I’m having the most wonderful life. When you think back, what you could have done, should have done, might have done, hey, would I have the children that I have? Would have my husband? Would I be living in this home with two dogs, the pain in the necks? Would I have had this time to have introspection and grow as a person? All those things come into play. So there isn’t any looking back, going, ‘Oy, yoy, yoy.’ I mean, I do look back and think, ‘What a moron!’ [Chuckles] I just say to young actors and singers, ‘Do not try to follow my career plan.’ [Laughs]. The only regret is the friends I might have made working on those films I turned down, that kind of stuff.

PCC:
You had another hit with ‘Back To School.’ What was your experience like, working with Rodney Dangerfield?

KELLERMAN:
He was a serious guy. He was a great, great comic. He was a hero, I think of all of our comics, in a way, all our standup comedians. All the young ones look up to Rodney. I didn’t think I liked him and when I went on the meeting, I said, ‘How am I going to get this job? I don’t even know if I like him.’ And I went in there and then they said, ‘Would you come back and reread?’ And I couldn’t, because I was working.’ They said, ‘Well, she can do the other part, at the front of the picture.’ I said, ‘No, I don’t want to do that. I don’t want to play some over-sexed, blah-blah-blah, that comic turn. I’d just rather stay home.’ I told my agents at CAA and they said they would make them take another meeting. So I walked back in, thinking, ‘How am I going to go into that room, knowing they don’t want to see me? How am I even going to open that door?’ This is all part of the muscle, the hair on the chest [Chuckles]. I didn’t have a clue what to do.

I opened the door and heard myself saying, ‘Oh, good, you’re all as handsome as I remember, but I’ve got to go.’ Rodney laughed. I said, ‘Readings are hard.’ He said, ‘Did you change your hair?’ I said ‘No, did you change yours?’ And I meant it, because he looked better to me [Laughs]. So I sat down and read the poem and I was in like Flynn. I wish I had a poem to read in every reading.

And then I went to Vegas and saw him work. And I’m telling you, I was just, ‘Whoa!’ He was like a musician. He’d just take you up there and if it was looking a little lean up there, he’d just come right back down and you’d follow him wherever he went. He was just so funny. And people stop me and mention that movie every day. The things I hear about on a regular basis, in the ladies room, women walk in and say, ‘Oh, I love your voice. didn’t you do... ‘ And they’ll say Hidden Valley Ranch. I hate to give them the credit, because they’re not paying me anymore [Laughs]. I’ve done Volvo, Mercedes, Woolite, Revlon. I’ve done every kind of commercial there is in the world. I’ve done everything. But Hidden Valley is the one they talk about.

And then they walk by me and they go, ‘Call me when you’ve got no class!’ - the ‘Back to School’ line. Or they shout out ‘Hot Lips!’ There are certain things in my career that people remember.

PCC:
I would think ‘A Little Romance’ would be another that people fondly remember.

KELLERMAN:
Well, you know, that’s kind of a cult film. I mean, ‘M*A*S*H’ and ‘Back To School’ were huge hits. And ‘Star Trek has its huge, conglomerate life of its own sort of experience.

PCC:
What have been the most satisfying aspects of your career?

KELLERMAN:
Just getting to do it. Being able to sing. Having opportunities to act and opportunities to sing. That’s really one of the big challenges... unless you’ve planned your career in a more intelligent way [Laughs]. It doesn’t matter who it is, every actor wants to be able to display a range. Like Tony Curtis wanting to change, wanting to have respect for being an actor, not just a charming character. Clint Eastwood is somebody who seems to have his finger on the pulse of what to do, in terms of sustaining a career. He’d give the audience what they want and then he’d do a picture that he wanted to do. So if that wasn’t successful, it didn’t matter, because he’d go back and do another ‘Dirty Harry.’

When they wanted to drop me in every war zone in the world, playing characters like Hot Lips. I’d say, ‘Oh, no, I’m a serious actress. I want to do something else, entirely different.’ But, anyway, it’s just real lucky to love what you do.

PCC:
As for the films that didn’t make a huge dent at the box office when they were initially released, are there a couple that you really wish would be rediscovered?

KELLERMAN:
Well, I do think ‘A Little Romance.’ People seem to love that. Anybody who saw it, loved it. ‘Boynton Beach Club,’ I don’t know anybody who didn’t just love it, because it’s one of those ensemble pieces that everybody’s good in. And the story was delightful. It’s about a retirement community, but it’s really charming. Joe Bologna. Len Cariou, who’s such a wonderful actor. Dyan Cannon was wonderful in it. Brenda Vaccaro - lovely. Renee Taylor was so funny, but moving. It was directed by Susan Seidelman, who did ‘Desperately Seeking Susan’ with Madonna.

And ‘Last of the Red Hot Lovers’ -that’s among the best work I’ve ever done. And Gene Saks was the director. Alan Arkin and I were in it with Paula Prentiss. In those days, with Neil Simon, it was three acts. The first act, I lucked out, the writing in it was so great. Gene just stayed on me like a glove. He just, ‘Tougher, harder.’ And the reviews, ‘She was so vulnerable.’ He just knew how to get that performance out of me. And Alan was so wonderful. So I’m always wishing that people would see that, see that work of mine. And I’m sure that Paula and Renee [Taylor] were good in the other two parts. I’ve only seen it once. And then I saw my part recently. Somebody put it on the internet. They put the whole first act. Somebody showed it to me.

PCC:
With so many great achievements, is there still some goal you’re burning to achieve?

KELLERMAN:
Well, I’m really looking forward to this next movie, ‘Sympathy For The Devil’. It’s going to be a commercial movie. My Alzheimer’s role is an independent film and I really enjoyed the experience, as I said. And you really don’t know what’s going to happen. I hope it will be a wonderful success for everyone involved. And you don’t know, just because it’s a studio film, that it’s going to be successful. I’ve been in films, where there were so many stars, like ‘Prete-a-Porter’ with Altman again. Sophia Loren, Marcello Mastroianni, Julia Roberts, Tim Robbins, I can’t even think of all the stars who were in that. It’s a fun, interesting film, as so many of Altman’s films are. But it wasn’t a big moneymaker.

It was amazing with Garry Marshall making ‘Valentine’s Day,’ with all those stars in it, it was a big success. I didn’t see it. I’d like to see it, because it’s really kind of rare when those things happen, with that many stars in something. It’s almost the kiss of death.

This is not the official statement on that kind of thing. But I was in two. I was in ‘Lost Horizon,’ which now really is like a cult film. More people have come up to me in the last two or three years... It was in the book of some of the worst films ever made. But it was Liv Ullmann, Peter Finch, John Gielgud, Charles Boyer, I mean, just on and on. Michael York, Olivia Hussey, Bobby Van. And Burt and Hal [Bacharach and David], who are geniuses, both of them. I just love them both. I’ve spent more time with Hal over the years, because he’s really been in my corner musically. He’s invited me to a lot of special events to sing with a lot of great people. But now, present time, people tell me, ‘In England, we play that movie every Christmas, with my family.’ And now they say there’s a theater in San Francisco that plays it at midnight. So that’s really fun. I love that idea.

PCC:
So many great projects over the years and some of the best are happening right now.

KELLERMAN:
It’s so nuts, at this time in my life. To be this excited. To have finally arrived at a place - I mean, I hope from here, I get better and better and better, growing all the time - but not arduously, not ‘Oh, my God, I’ve got to find a way to make this work.’ Just the doing it will make it better, always. That’s my hope, one keeps growing and growing... to the great beyond [Laughs]. And then some.