By Paul Freeman [2000 interview]

When new wave exploded onto the music scene, one of the most electrifying performers in electro-pop was Terri Nunn. More than 30 years later, the front woman of Berlin remains one of the most exciting vocalists around.

Berlin, formed in Orange County, California, released their first single in 1979. Their provocative, synth-based sound, fueled by intoxicating rhythms and Nunn's compelling, supremely sensual vocals, generated the hit "Sex (I'm A...)" in 1982. Moving to a major label, the band enjoyed a smash with "The Metro." Another popular number, "No More Words," followed. But Berlin's biggest success came in 1986 with "Take My Breath Away," from the movie "Top Gun." It became an international sensation.

However, the group split up in 1987. Nunn created a new version of Berlin a decade later and the band opened for The Go-Go's on their 1999 West Coast reunion tour.

We interviewed Nunn in 2000, after the release of the albums "Berlin Live: Sacred and Profane" and "Greatest Hits Remixed." A few years later, the classic lineup was momentarily brought together by VH1's "Bands Reunited" series.

In 2018. Nunn and her version of Berlin were planning a new album and tour with original band members John Crawford (co-founder, primary songwriter, synth, bass) and David Diamond (keyboards, guitar). Fans can look forward to this new studio record in 2019.

POP CULTURE CLASSICS:
Having this new edition of Berlin, that recorded the live album, has it reenergized you?

TERRI NUNN:
Yes. It's kind of a culmination of a reenergizing that's been taking place for a while. We started playing again in '97, but it really started in '98, when I worked with different writers. And I just got reenergized through a lot of people. And through other bands, as well, what other bands are doing. Then this record, we started recording last year and then finished up the tracks beginning of this year.

PCC:
Any particular bands you heard that inspired you?

NUNN:
Yeah, one especially -- Nine Inch Nails. They really did. And by the way, the new record of theirs, God! It's already one of my favorite records of all time.

PCC:
In putting this new band together, were you conscious of not wanting to slavishly duplicate the original feel? Did you want to freshen things up in some ways?

NUNN:
Yeah, that's why I put it together before, but I only had two or three new songs at the time and I had an idea where I wanted to go, a lot of it, again, based on some bands that were going on at the time, like the Sneaker Pimps were out with something. Garbage had put out a couple records. And Nine Inch Nails. That was helping me to see where Berlin could go, because it was taking electronic music into the future and utilizing a lot of elements that I liked. I just thought, "Okay, this is something that Berlin can do, and do well."

PCC:
Did you have to think about whether you wanted to go under the Berlin name or just start again with a whole new identity?

NUNN:
I always loved Berlin. I always loved the whole feel around it. And when I explored the different possibilities, it was unanimous, as far as what the people out there wanted. They wanted to hear Berlin again. Some of them wanted to hear new Berlin, some of them old, some of them wanted both. But, also, it's really hard, Paul, to start over. It's incredible how a band is a business. And when it has a name for a while, it creates its own foundation that you can build on.

For example, when we started, we made nothing on shows. We made all of our money on records, because when we first started, on the first tour, people didn't know who we were. So they weren't going to spend a lot of money, coming to our shows. Now it's the reverse. Now our biggest money-making venture is the shows. People know. There are people who have a long history with us and people who have just heard something on the radio. It's now completely reversed, where the records are not what make us the most money, it's the shows, because of the years we've been around. But it takes a long time to get to a point where it's like that [laughs]. It's hard.

PCC:
Are you finding a lot of new fans at the shows? Is it diverse in terms of ages?

NUNN:
We get a lot of different kinds of people, depending where we play, because there are festivals that we've been playing, with a lot of different bands, the package tours like the one we did last year with The Go-Go's -- a whole lot of different kinds of people. And then for our own shows, it's mostly people in their 20s to 40s that come to the shows.

PCC:
With that age, people who are so familiar with the classic tunes, is it difficult to make it more than a nostalgia trip?

NUNN:
Well, I don't know if the word "nostalgia" is right. I heard a thing once that nobody comes to hear a band's new music. And that's true, even for me, and I'm a musician. When I go see a band I like, I want to hear what I like. I'm going to hear the songs that I know. I'm interested in what the new stuff is that they're doing, but I really am there to hear "Stairway to Heaven," [laughs] or whatever it is that's my personal favorite.

So yeah, they want to hear the songs they know. And there are different levels, in all the people that I meet at the shows, of, "Yes, we want a new record out." Or "We're here because 'Take My Breath Away' was our wedding song." You know that I mean? They're all different. They all have different Berlin interests.

PCC:
In reviving the band, was there much talk with John Crawford about participating? Was that ever a consideration?

NUNN:
John didn't want to tour anymore, for sure. He had two kids at that point. We tried writing together. One of the songs made it. It hasn't made it on a record yet. But it will make it on the next studio album. It's a song that Berlin plays, but we didn't do for this live record, because there was a lot of newer material that made it onto this one. But there was no question, he wasn't going to be touring with Berlin again. No interest whatsoever.

PCC:
I read that, a while back, you worked with a vocal coach.

NUNN:
I worked with a vocal coach twice -- once after the first tour, because I had no idea what it would take to maintain on a tour [laughs]. They were booking us like four or five shows in a row, sometimes six or seven. And I didn't know enough to say, "Look, I can only work this many shows." They just booked us. And by the time I got off that tour, I was a wreck. I didn't know how to sustain a voice over that many repetitions in a week. So I studied with someone then. And that helped a lot.

And then a year-and-a-half ago, '97 and '98, I was recording a lot and I really wanted some more power on the top, on my high end. And I ran into a name I was a given, a guy who works with a lot of singers I like a lot. He works with Bjork, Scott Weiland from Stone Temple Pilots, all kinds of people that are really unique, that have their own style. His name is Ron Anderson. And he's actually from opera. But man, he was amazing. He gave me power all the way around, not just on the high end. We worked together for four months. And I will go back to him again, when I can block out some time. I would study with him again, because he's really got a bead on voice and how to make it strong and powerful... and easy. I got a lot out of him.

PCC:
It must give you a lot of confidence to know that your voice is as powerful, if not more so, than ever.

NUNN:
Thank you. It started being more dynamic when I quit smoking. That helped. I got an octave at both ends within six months of getting off of cigarettes. That was eight years ago. And then he helped me even more to find the power in there. So that was great.

PCC:
And you also worked to enhance your lyric-writing?

NUNN:
I took a class at UCLA called The Business of Songwriting. At the time, I was still married and having a tough time with my ex-husband, because he was just getting tired of my career, getting tired of me being gone, the traveling, the stress. And he was trying to push me into just songwriting, as a living. And I wanted to keep the marriage together. I wasn't sure what to do.

So I took the class. I thought, "Well, what's the business about of just songwriting?" And through that, I asked a professor if he knew of any lyricist teachers. And he introduced me to a lady who also taught at UCLA, named Pamela Phillips-Oland. And I was lucky enough to get to work with her. In fact, she's the co-writer of one of the songs on this record ["Turn You On"]. And she helped me a lot in the whole craft of lyric writing. I really enjoyed her.

PCC:
What kinds of things did you learn?

NUNN:
A lot of the craft, a lot of tools. I still didn't feel confident to call up Trent Reznor and say, "Will you write with me?" I had done it over the years, got my courage up and called Andrew Eldritch from the Sisters of Mercy at one point to write with me for my solo album. And Johnette Napolitano, because I loved her writing for a band called Concrete Blonde. But I hadn't done it really that much and I wanted to get more confidence.

I didn't feel that I could sit down with somebody unknown and have the resources to just write something on the spot -- you know? So that's what I learned from her. I learned tools that I could utilize instantly to get me through blockages and to come up with lyric ideas, to music, with people.

PCC:
It's great that somebody with so much experience in music can still be eager to learn. Have you always been open in that way?

NUNN:
No. You know what? My ex-husband got me open to that. I was actually afraid of taking classes and things like that. And he was instrumental. He was very good at taking classes. He was a chiropractor and he always had to go and learn new things about his field. And I as amazed that he could just go into a class anywhere and learn things. I was always afraid of looking stupid and having people looking at me and go, "Well, that's Terri Nunn -- what is she doing in here?"

When you go to an adult class at UCLA nobody cares what you do or how good you are, because everybody's there to learn. Everybody's there to get better at whatever their business is or whatever their hobby is or whatever their future is. So get over yourself. Go and learn. If you've got something that you've got to bone up on, go do it. Do it great. After that, it got a lot easier for me.

PCC:
What about when the band was first taking off and there was that first rush of fame -- did you have the attitude that you were really going to have to work at it to make it a long-term career? Or did it seem like it was just going to go along forever?

NUNN:
It seemed like it was just going to go on forever, Paul. It did. I was so young when it first hit. I didn't know anything else. I didn't know that it was hard, because it was only hard for Berlin for a little while. We got together in '79 and we worked together for a year and then got back together for another year -- and that's when it hit. It was a little while, but not a whole long time. I mean some bands, God, No Doubt was together 13 years before "Tragic Kingdom" hit. I thought, "God!" [laughs] "That's paying your dues. That's working for nothing... for a long time." I didn't know what that was like. So I just figured, "Shoot, we're special" [laughs].

PCC:
How did you handle the success -- was it just fun? Or were there difficulties even then?

NUNN:
Both. Both fun and difficult. There was so much coming at us. And I didn't know how to handle it. And I didn't handle my life very well. I lost my life, pretty much. Didn't have a life. Didn't have anything but work. But that was my fault, too. I thought, if I was good enough at work, if I achieved enough, then everything else would just fall together, that I would have a great love life and a great family life and everybody would just adore me and love me like they did in my work.

I found out that's not the case. It fell apart for me for a long time. I didn't even have a relationship for four years in my twenties. I didn't have sex for four years in my twenties, at the height of our fame.

PCC:
Was that trepidation about whether a guy wanted to be with you because you were the lead singer with Berlin or because he was attracted to the real you?

NUNN:
It was me being too picky. Just feeling like, if there's not a chance at forever, then I don't want it at all... I wasn't even willing to give forever. So I don't know what I was thinking [laughs]. Just kind of stumbling around, making a lot of mistakes.

PCC:
And now?

NUNN:
Now I've been with a man for a year-and-a-half. I was married for seven years, but we got a divorce in '98. And a month after separating, I met Paul, the guy I'm with now.

PCC:
Is he in the music business?

NUNN:
No, uh-uh. He's a mortgage broker. [She married Paul Spear, who moved into family law. She has a daughter and two stepsons.]

PCC:
Back to Berlin -- Was "Take My Breath Away" a mixed blessing, because the band became so identified with that song, yet it was far removed from the other music Berlin had been making?

NUNN:
It wasn't the direction the band wanted to go in at the time. They were resentful at having to play it. And that hurt even more, because that was our first number one. And I thought it was a good song. But the way it came to us, Giorgio Moroder called us and asked if we'd do it for "Top Gun" and the band was already moving in a completely different direction. But he wanted to produce it and he had written it. So it was this whole new thing that all of a sudden was thrust upon us.

I thought it was great. The band felt that, "Now it's a hit. Now we have to play it every single f-cking show." That was the feeling. And it separated everybody from where we all wanted to go, which was in different directions anyway. And that made it worse.

PCC:
Had you been headed in a harder-edged direction? What were you planning?

NUNN:
Yeah, I wanted to. And I don't think I was necessarily right, now looking back. I don't if John was right, but his position at the time was just stay where we were, keep doing a lot of what we were doing. And I think there was a lot of good to that. But I wanted to try all new things. I wanted to experiment. Do some different things with guitars. Try some different guests on the records. And he was like, "No, I don't want to do that." And we weren't even speaking by the last tour.

PCC:
How do you survive touring with someone you can't even talk to?

NUNN:
It sucks. But we just got through it.

PCC:
And when did you finally get to the point where you just said, "Enough is enough."

NUNN:
The end of that tour.

PCC:
So a that point, in '87, did you think that was really the end? Or were you thinking of it as the band taking a break?

NUNN:
I thought would be the end.

PCC:
Your persona, with the open sexuality, did that work for you or against you? Or both?

NUNN:
Both. It's funny, what you're asking me is making me think that every success is a mixed blessing. It brings great things, but it also brings its own set of problems. Every single success we had brought its own set of problems, whether it was an onslaught of work or recognition that we weren't really expecting [laughs], a perception that we didn't expect. It's always something.

PCC:
So how did you deal with all of that?

NUNN:
By burning out. That's how I dealt with it. Wasn't the right answer. But I went into it, rather than away from it. I went into working too hard and then losing, completely, my life. And losing my perspective and my love for it, because I'd let it overtake everything else. And work, it doesn't matter how great it is, it's not everything. That's for sure. But I didn't know that then.

PCC:
So regaining your affection for performing, was that a gradual process?

NUNN:
Yes, it was.

PCC:
You must look back with satisfaction, seeing what a pioneer you were, both in terms of the sound and in being a female in rock.

NUNN:
That keeps hitting me, from the people out there saying they were influenced by Berlin. It just keeps coming out over the years. I didn't know it then, but yeah, it's continuously come back. And the fact that, when I started playing out with Berlin again, and resurfacing the band, that people were so receptive. The fact that there was such an audience out there for us was a surprise to me, too. It made me wish I'd done it earlier.

PCC:
Do you think it's very different for women in rock now?

NUNN:
I think it's better. It's great. So many strong women in music now. Not nearly as many as men, but a lot more. And I don't see them instantly pigeonholed now like they used to be. Madonna got a lot of shit. She came out just a little bit after we did. She just got hammered... for being anything about sex. And I did, certainly. If they weren't Joni Mitchell pure, they were thrown to the dogs.

And I don't find that anymore. I think that's great. Women are allowed to be sexy, just like men were always allowed to be sexy. And they're allowed to get out there and front bands, like men always have, too, without the, "Oh, well, she must be a bitch. She must be power-hungry" [laughs] -- you know, all these things that they used to say. That's not part of the equation anymore, because there's too many of them now. It's great for women.

PCC:
Is it easier for you now?

NUNN:
Yeah, it is.

PCC:
Is that because of the changes in your own perception and attitudes or because of the changes to the outside forces?

NUNN:
Both. I actually like being older, because it gives me... I find it gives all older people a bit more authority. People tend to listen to me more. I had a tough time, early in the band, being a girl, being in a band with a lot of guys, having ideas, throwing them out. It was like, "Oh, yeah, her again." There was just something that was different than if one of the guys threw it out.

Now I'm the boss. And the years I've had working in music have given me a certain authority. I don't have to work as hard to get ideas across or to be listened to. So I really enjoy that. And I think part of it is just being a survivor.

PCC:
Why do you think you are a survivor? Is it just your nature, something inherent in you, the perseverance and determination?

NUNN:
It's because I love it, the music and the performing. That's why I survived.

PCC:
The VH1 attention -- has that been a big boost to the band?

NUNN:
It's incredible [laughs]. A show on you... and they run it like every night, forever! It's so great for artists. And it's really because they're still developing their programming, so they're not like Channel 7 that's got just three zillion shows that they can run. So they keep running things over and over. So this one show, I can't tell you how many people have called me -- I think we did "Before They Were Rock Stars" or "Where Are They Now?" last year and I still get calls -- "Saw that show... Wow!" [Laughs] They're still playing it.

PCC:
The whole phenomenon of 80s nostalgia, does it seem odd that this happening already?

NUNN:
Oh, God, it's now a while ago. We've been through the 90s now. So, no, it doesn't seem strange.

PCC:
Do you tend to look ahead more than back?

NUNN:
Yeah, because the back has already been done. It's already happened. It's not something that you can base excitement on. You know? It's a basis, but it's a basis for now and the future, really, for me.

PCC:
And what are you hoping for the future? What do you envision ahead for the band?

NUNN:
I'm hoping to keep pioneering with Berlin. I love electronic music. I always have. It's not all I listen to. I love Stone Temple Pilots and love a lot of hard rock. So I can't say it's the only thing I love. But it still interests me to try new things in that field, in that area, and see if I can excite people with that.

That's how it all started for me. Hearing Berlin's music initially, I'd never heard anything like that. And I thought, "Wow, that would be exciting, to get people to hear this stuff. It's a whole new thing! That would be so cool."

PCC:
You've released the live album, the remix album... Are you thinking of doing a new studio album, as well?

NUNN:
I'm starting to write it now. And there's still a backlog of songs. So we've already begun to work on that. [Berlin released the studio albums "Voyeur" in 2002, "4Play" in 2005 and "Animal" in 2013.]

PCC:
Why was it the electronic music that so grabbed you and has had such an impact on you? What do you love most about it?

NUNN:
I don't know. I don't know why that one, as opposed to R&B or guitar music. I don't know. There's just something. It just seems to strike a chord in me. The moment I heard it, bands like Ultravox, just starting out, Kraftwerk, Devo -- there was just something about that music. It was just, "Wow, that is great."

I loved Blondie. When punk happened, that was really my renaissance time, was the late 70s. That got to be what the 60s were to my brother, who's eight years older than me. So he got to have his hot music time. And punk turned out to be that for me. But I didn't see my place in there. It didn't hit me until I heard electronic music and I thought, "Wow!"

It was sexy. I've never been a screaming singer. I've never been that kind of musician. So when I heard electronic music and heard how sexy and fluid voices could be over that, and that the juxtaposition of the two, of human and machine, that's where I said, "Yeah, I could do that. My voice would work with that and create something interesting."

For the latest news and tour dates, visit www.berlinpage.com.